Dating Holdsworth -fancy lugs (Nervex Copies ? )any advice

[dvines]

Just bought a 2nd hand Holdsworth off of ebay.

was wondering if anyone can help me with dating it.

Only number I can find is on Fork steerer which is "553"

It is a touring geometry frame, with Fancy lugs, that look like Nervex Pro, except seem to show some differences.

Front of head-lugs has no fish-tail - a window instead, and no-reinforcing rim.

Downtube tang is much bigger & longer.

Not sure if forks are original - they have full sloping italian style crown which is flush with the blades (no ridge) although they are same colour and as tatty/corroded as rest of frame.

Frame has long campag ends with mudguard eyes.

Curved rear brake beidge suggests an older design ?

I have shown frame to Cliff Shrubb, who said he didn't think the lugs were Nervex but copies - he didn't have any fixed ideas on date.

Haven't been able to find a nervex lug pattern that looks exactly liek it on any of the classic bike websites....


Of course it might not be a Holdsworth just one they resprayed, or a special they made.

[dvines]

and some more pics

[Freddie]

More than likely late 40's to early/mid 50's frame.

One thing I'm certain of, that fork isn't original or even period. Looks very 70's/80's, I'd see if you can find a period Holdsworth fork (50's), as the curve will be quite different and the bike will handle as it was intended to.

[dvines]

and from the rear

[dvines]

Cliff Shrubb said Holdsworth did build with those fork-crowns.. although when..... ?

[PW]

Recessed seatpin bolt clamp made for an allen fitting. I'd doubt that's a 40s/50s construction. Either that fitting is a later braze on or the frame's a lot newer than Freddie thought.

[Freddie]

Well, that's certainly changed things. Perhaps it's a new, old style frame, there was a fashion for that for a time or perhaps the seat clamp has been added later....what you don't know you don't know!.

[tatanab]

Note also the stops and guides on the downtube for handlebar controls. I don't recall them being an original feature, and downtube controls were fashionable in the 60's. Rear brake bridge for centrepull brakes, again I don't recall as original and centrepulls were fashionable in the 60s.

So I think it is an older frame which had additions made in the 60's. Recessed seat pin bolts were around at that time too.

[dvines]

I also thought it maybe was an older frame which had been mucked around at a later date....

Lets face-it, most of us have things brazed on or moved or changed if having a frame resprayed.

The frame ends could have been changed as well - perhaps at the same time as the forks ?

When would this style of sloping flush fork-crown have been fashionable ?

Would Holdsworth have put their metal Headbage on a respray job if it was another make of frame ?
Does the colour-scheme suggest 60's ? it is a vile yellow with black bands and head-tube.

[djnotts]

IF the no. on the fork was related to the frame, then the same no, should appear somewhere (some at least old Carltons for example bore identical no's on the steerer and the rear drop outs).

More likely it's Reynolds 553 I'd have thought - which would support the forks being newer than the frame (and they certainly just don't look the "right" period). 553 seems to be associated with Peugeots.

[robinlh]

Holdsworth were well known for their fancy lugs in my youth,its why fashion victims like me owned them............
But I don't recognise these at all,and the whole thing just does'nt look quite right for a Holdsworth.
But Cliff Shrubb should know,he's undoubtedly seen many more of them than I have.
The thing is,its a pretty frame,so get it on the road and see what you make of it,if the handling is wrong,get some new forks made by Cliff,or to his specification.
robin

[Domestique]

and from the rear

Is that picture showing a center pull brake cable guide?

[McVouty]

Have a look here: http://www.classiclightweights.co.uk/fr ... ml#Table_1 .

[dvines]

I had already looked at that sitre it din't really give much help....

[Hilander]

Resurrecting an old thread, but hey:

Pictured on your frame are early versions of Nervex Pro lugs, denoting late 40s, early fifties as manufacturing date of the frameset. Anything outlying to that may be later additions (or 'updates') to the frame.

For further info, make reference here:
http://www.classiclightweights.co.uk/co ... ervex.html

Hope, that helps!