Gordon's gaffe...

[EdinburghFixed]

I really detest the mess that labour have made of things, and there's no way that Gordon Brown would have got my vote anyway, but...

Isn't someone who wants something done about foreign people purely because they're foreign, exactly what a bigot is? I mean, it's effectively like asking "what are you going to do about all the black people"!

It might well be the case that this woman didn't really mean that she wanted something done about foreign people just because they're foreign, but that's clearly how he took it, and also how I took it when I heard the whole thing in full.

Labour dropped the ball horrendously here. They should have come out swinging, and had Gordon say that he was going to do nothing about honest people who have the misfortune to be of different descent, and then allowed it to come about that he'd taken it a bit too literally, and then he could have withdrawn comments honestly made without it looking like a major climbdown.

As it is, the labour campaign really does seem to have self-destructed in one ignominious hour.

[mw3230]

I laughed at Brown's discomfort and then I thought that perhaps I should have been more charitable - we all make mistakes after all. Then I though again and am now of the opinion that the man is a prize AH - he lives his life in the public spotlight and ought to be aware of such things as microphones. Imagine if has has such lapses in concentration when making decisions about going to war, or saving the economy. I know the others will say exactly the same sort of thing, but so far they've had enough off to not be overheard.

He's a has-been I'm afraid

[squeaker]

There but for the grace of God.....

It would be a sad comment on the state of UK politics if the election turns on one remark, however careless. However, I'd hope that the minder who forgot to de-wire his boss has received the mother-of-all-talking-to's

PS: the Wikipedia definition of bigot includes: "A bigot is a person obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices. The correct use of the term requires the elements of obstinacy, irrationality, and animosity toward those of differing devotion." Not having seen the original interview with the woman in question, I won't comment on whether Gordon was right, or not, but might suggest that he was probably in the best position to judge.

PPS: the really sad thing is how stage managed all this media stuff is nowadays

[EdinburghFixed]

Hmm, the definition I have is someone who is "intolerant of people of different ethnicity, race, or class". Which certainly includes putting the downer on people simply because they were born elsewhere.

The question of whether it is a natural human condition to be bigoted against people outside your "tribe" (be that mode of transport, nationality or skin colour) is entirely different and I suspect that's what more of the fuss has been over. On Radio 4 this morning the interviewer was defending the woman by saying that disliking foreign people was basically a common view held by many voters. i.e. that many voters are bigoted against foreigners!

[GrahamNR17]

Regardless of the nature of the conversation they had, it does show politicians up for what they are; two-faced *rude words omitted*

Say one thing to your face, another behind your back. I think it's bred in to them. It would probably have killed Brown to raise his concerns to her face.

The desire to be a politician should negate your right to ever being one.

[EdinburghFixed]

I suppose you could say, there are no votes in being anti-bigoted when you fear your electorate is bigoted?

[fatboy]

I suppose you could say, there are no votes in being anti-bigoted when you fear your electorate is bigoted?

I have known plenty of people who I would call bigots that they wouldn't. I'm not sure how wrong he was in his assessment of her. However this is the final nail in the coffin and it will play into the hands of the BNP and UKIP IMHO so I can't see him recovering from this and he knows it! The whole apology thing didn't help either.

[kwackers]

It's the funniest thing I've seen in a while. Good on him for thinking she was a bigot even if he couldn't have said it in public!

Two faced? Possibly, find me someone who isn't. The British are bigots as a race, however you can't stand up and say that because the majority don't think they are.
The number of times I've heard someone start: "I'm not a bigot but...." as if declaring you're not one excuses the remark.

Someone has set up a twitter stream for her http://twitter.com/bigotedwoman

[Si]

If I was him I would have just answered her question with: "Erm, Eastern Europe I'd guess", and walk off shaking head in a 'why do I bother?' manner.

Seriously, one does have to have some sympathy with anyone who is concerned with the number of people coming into the country, not because they hate foreigners, but because they are worried about the impact of population increases. I'm not saying that I agree with this sentiment, but I do feel that people ought to be able to at least discuss it without automatically being called a bigot, racist, xenophobe, etc. I think that part of this woman's problem may have been that, being of a particular back ground that does not prepare people for public debate, she was not equipped to phrase her concerns in the publicly acceptable manner. Either that or she was a bigot. But as Kwackers sez, everyone is bigoted in some way and to some extent, it's just that many have trouble accepting this.

[bodach]

The big mistake is apologising profusely.He would get more respect if he toughed it out.Apologies just show weakness.Nowadays tho' nobody is allowed to express any personal opinion of any kind without the PC brigade coming out with outrage. I am glad I am no longer an employer as I would no doubt be in trouble for not employing people I did not like and considered would be disruptive to my business. Any gaffes I may make nowadays are blamed on senility setting in so I suppose there are some compensations of age tho' I can't think of many.

[Colin63]

Well, a party that wants more surveillance cameras and more snooping into private lives should be more careful when technology comes back to bite them!

I think that this shows that getting out to 'meet the people' during election campaigns is just a lie. It's all about media manipulation, being in front of the cameras having snappy sound bite conversations with ordinary folk so that they look good on TV. Brown didn't sound angry about the woman herself but that his people had organised something where he didn't get his sound bite and thus saw it as an annoying waste of time. It was certainly dumb of someone not to be aware of the microphone still being pinned on the lapel, but I think that he was having a go at his aides for not finding a more 'useful' member of the public. The bigot comment wasn't generous, but who hasn't walked away from a frustrating person and muttered OTT abuse about them just get the annoyance out of the system, and he thought he was in a private place.

She certainly deserved an apology, but to see Brown squirming outside her house saying that he must have misheard what she said looked like a naughty schoolboy still protesting his innocence. All rather embarrassing. These people are trapped by their fear of the media. I would have been more impressed if he'd said "Our agenda didn't work out as we'd planned and in private I took out my frustration on the last person I'd spoken too. I'm sorry for the offence." That way at least he would have sounded honest and people would have accepted it. The media would continue to attack in their predatory way, but he wouldn't be wriggling on a hook any more. As it is he panicked and lost control. He looked small, and who wants a small prime minister?

[thirdcrank]

... it does show politicians up for what they are; two-faced *rude words omitted* ...

That was exactly what I thought. Ask anybody what they think of politicians and the answer is likely to be two-faced (but with the rude word included. ) So the big story is that a politician has acted like .... a politician. Nothing new there, then. The big difference is that the satge- management was below par. He's been meeting only lifelong Labour supporters and somebody found him one with views a bit different from his own. Then they forgot to turn off the mike when he was slagging her off.

[Si]

The big difference is that the satge- management was below par

I wonder if another difference might be that it was a Sky mike? Would the comments have been publicised by the Beeb? Was it a coincidence that it was from Murdock's corporation? It didn't do anything to harm his poodle, Cameron! No, I'm sure I'm wrong and just being cynical.

[kwackers]

Well, a party that wants more surveillance cameras and more snooping into private lives should be more careful when technology comes back to bite them!

In a society that seems to need more snooping and surveillance just to make them behave in a reasonable way.

I think that this shows that getting out to 'meet the people' during election campaigns is just a lie. It's all about media manipulation, being in front of the cameras having snappy sound bite conversations with ordinary folk so that they look good on TV. Brown didn't sound angry about
<snip>

Politics is a joke, GB isn't very good when it comes to media - so what? Well the problem is everything is a media circus. People vote based on the plastic veneer presented by the candidates publicists. Airbrushed images adorn our highways, speeches are carefully vetted and watered down, minor gaffs blown up beyond all recognition and in the absence of actual policies the way forward is simply to put the other guy down.
Did GB panic? Who knows, but his publicists did.

It'd be nice to blame the politicians, but ultimately in these celeb obsessed isles the majority vote for image rather than substance.

[NUKe]

Hmm, the definition I have is someone who is "intolerant of people of different ethnicity, race, or class". Which certainly includes putting the downer on people simply because they were born elsewhere.

The question of whether it is a natural human condition to be bigoted against people outside your "tribe" (be that mode of transport, nationality or skin colour) is entirely different and I suspect that's what more of the fuss has been over. On Radio 4 this morning the interviewer was defending the woman by saying that disliking foreign people was basically a common view held by many voters. i.e. that many voters are bigoted against foreigners!

Well said That interviewer on Radio 4 annoyed me as well.
Awhile back I caught a programme where two other miserable faced pensioners were moaning about the fact that Britain had gone to the dogs, there were too many immigrants, So they were emigrating to France