Newbie - but which touring bike?????????????????????

[Shedmeister]

I would eventually like to do that, but at the moment, as a complete novice i would like an instant bike to get the feel of and then at some point upgrade to a better bike that i can get cheap and build myself

[al_yrpal]

After coming back to cycling I did my first tour (250m)on a flimsy road bike - Giant SCR 3.0 - disaster, it wobbled like jelly loaded with panniers downhill. You could'nt get above 25 mph. Second tour (450m) was on an ordinary Halfords hardtail mountain bike fitted with rack and smooth tyres - that was absolutely fine, but sometimes not quite as quick as my pals Galaxy. I upgraded to a full suss MTB so touring on that was out as I could not fit a rack.

Then, I got an old Galaxy and did what Niggle suggested. I fitted a new Stronglight triple Impact chainset, flat bars with Ergo grips and Paselas. On that I rode from Glasgow to Oban round Mull and back (400 miles odd), and various other smaller tours. But.... although it was a midge faster I found it a bit uncomfortable and a very annoying floppy bike, you could never park it anywhere with confidence and it just didn't seem right.

So, it was back to a similar bike to that MTB for me, looked at loads of ludicrously expensive brand name bikes and ended up with a Halfords Subway 2. This bike has disc brakes on 26" wheels that can take 1.75" tyres, which I think are great on any versatile tourer. Fitted mudguards, MTB rack, 1.75" Paselas, B17 type saddle Ergon Grips and Ergo Bar Ends. Result? Excellent tough expedition type disc braked bike with slick MTB gears, better ground clearance, fantastic comfort, able to go practically anywhere on and off road. And, all for £450!

This afternoon did four of the biggest hills around here ( I am working up to two weeks touring in France), interspersed with several bridleways and a large chunk of the Ridgeway. it goes practically anywhere in comfort. For me, I think its the ultimate touring bike, and the end of a journey of my own practical experience and preference. I am quite interested in the new Shimano 11 speed hub due out in November so I might invest in a new back wheel fitted with one of these when it becomes available. A quality back wheel is worth having when your spokes go ping in the middle of nowhere.

You don't have to pay a fortune to get a decent bike. This is the second Halfords Carrera bike I have had and they were both excellent. As people often remark, some of Halfords staff are not very good, but at least some of their Carrera bikes seem to be fantastic value for money unlike the Boardmans that I looked at closely and rejected.

Good luck

Al

[Big T]

Right i'm getting there, gears i really need are 28-38-48. What does be the frame need to be? - does it have to be steel? I am planning to take camping gear. plus i am 6 foot with a 32" leg so what size frame do you all reckon i need?

I'm a similar size to you and I ride a 58cm Ridgeback Panorama - thats 58cm from the centre of the bottom bracket to the top of the seat tube. Best to go to somewhere like Spa Cycles or Edinburgh Bike co-op and actually sit on the bike you intend to buy.

Steel is preferable, but if the budget won't stretch to it, then you'd be Ok with the Alu framed Dawes Vantage or Edinburgh Country Traveller or Explorer. Steel gives a more comfortable ride. Alu can transmit more of the road vibration through to your body.

Despite my earlier post, my bike does have a 48-36-26 triple and 11-34 cassette. I never use the 26 ring though. Well, almost never!

[niggle]

After coming back to cycling I did my first tour (250m)on a flimsy road bike - Giant SCR 3.0 - disaster, it wobbled like jelly loaded with panniers downhill. You could'nt get above 25 mph. Second tour (450m) was on an ordinary Halfords hardtail mountain bike fitted with rack and smooth tyres - that was absolutely fine, but sometimes not quite as quick as my pals Galaxy. I upgraded to a full suss MTB so touring on that was out as I could not fit a rack.

Then, I got an old Galaxy and did what Niggle suggested. I fitted a new Stronglight triple Impact chainset, flat bars with Ergo grips and Paselas. On that I rode from Glasgow to Oban round Mull and back (400 miles odd), and various other smaller tours. But.... although it was a midge faster I found it a bit uncomfortable and a very annoying floppy bike, you could never park it anywhere with confidence and it just didn't seem right.

So, it was back to a similar bike to that MTB for me, looked at loads of ludicrously expensive brand name bikes and ended up with a Halfords Subway 2. This bike has disc brakes on 26" wheels that can take 1.75" tyres, which I think are great on any versatile tourer. Fitted mudguards, MTB rack, 1.75" Paselas, B17 type saddle Ergon Grips and Ergo Bar Ends. Result? Excellent tough expedition type disc braked bike with slick MTB gears, better ground clearance, fantastic comfort, able to go practically anywhere on and off road. And, all for £450!

This afternoon did four of the biggest hills around here ( I am working up to two weeks touring in France), interspersed with several bridleways and a large chunk of the Ridgeway. it goes practically anywhere in comfort. For me, I think its the ultimate touring bike, and the end of a journey of my own practical experience and preference. I am quite interested in the new Shimano 11 speed hub due out in November so I might invest in a new back wheel fitted with one of these when it becomes available. A quality back wheel is worth having when your spokes go ping in the middle of nowhere.

You don't have to pay a fortune to get a decent bike. This is the second Halfords Carrera bike I have had and they were both excellent. As people often remark, some of Halfords staff are not very good, but at least some of their Carrera bikes seem to be fantastic value for money unlike the Boardmans that I looked at closely and rejected.

Good luck

Al

In addition to the Overbury I do have a Carrera Subway 8 (the Nexus hub gear version) for commuting purposes. The Subway, which runs on 1.5" Conti Sport Contact slicks, is a tough and useful thing for what I use it for and agree it is a good load carrier, but when I used it for a 50 mile CTC ride it was sluggish and the harshness of the ride became more noticeable compared with the Overbury's. Re. the Galaxy just wondering what you did about the stem when you went to flat bar and what was uncomfortable about it? Running 1.75" tyres will make most surfaces seem smooth for any bike, but the problem must surely be rather high rolling resistance compared to 32mm(1.25") touring tyres?

[al_yrpal]

Niggle,

On the Subway I have 1.75" Paselas pumped up to 65psi and I think there is a little extra rolling resistance compared with the 27" 32mm Paselas inflated to 80psi on the Galaxy, but its hard to tell exactly. I seem to achieve roughly the same average speed, although it feels slower? I find there is remarkable lack of vibration and harshness riding the Subway compared to the Galaxy, the main frame triangle is built of huge tubes and very rigid indeed, and the forks are solid steel tubes with no give at all. On one particular section of road which I always used to dread on the Galaxy, the Subway just floats over it with hardly a murmur. Because of that and the genuine off road abilitiy its a trade off I am happy with.

On the Galaxy I fitted a Kalloy adjustable stem so I could put the slight riser bars just where I wanted them. Possibly I think it was too long and high for me. It was an old one without the sloping top tube - ouch!

Al

[niggle]

Niggle,

On the Subway I have 1.75" Paselas pumped up to 65psi and I think there is a little extra rolling resistance compared with the 27" 32mm Paselas inflated to 80psi on the Galaxy, but its hard to tell exactly. I seem to achieve roughly the same average speed, although it feels slower? I find there is remarkable lack of vibration and harshness riding the Subway compared to the Galaxy, the main frame triangle is built of huge tubes and very rigid indeed, and the forks are solid steel tubes with no give at all. On one particular section of road which I always used to dread on the Galaxy, the Subway just floats over it with hardly a murmur. Because of that and the genuine off road abilitiy its a trade off I am happy with.

On the Galaxy I fitted a Kalloy adjustable stem so I could put the slight riser bars just where I wanted them. Possibly I think it was too long and high for me. It was an old one without the sloping top tube - ouch!

Al

Well I found my average speed on the Subway down about 4mph on longer rides compared with the Overbury (and also compared with my Pacific Reach full road suspension 20" wheel folder with 28-451 Primo Comets), but the ride quality is sort of wooden and harsh on the worst bumps, you feel the bumps on the Overbury as well, but somehow in a gentler, slower rising fashion, if that makes sense? Mind you the Pacific is better still on higher pressure, skinnier tyres and also accelerates better than either big wheel bike, but has been a bit troublesome with wear in the front suspension.

My ideal tourer would be a late model Moulton APB or TSR, I had an early APB some years ago and that was perfect part from the excessive weight: the later APBs were built with lighter Reynolds tubing but the early ones were some sort of plain tube high tensile so best avoided. Unfortunately they are hard to find and not very cheap, i.e. I cannot afford one

[al_yrpal]

"Well I found my average speed on the Subway down about 4mph on longer rides compared with the Overbury "

I think my Subway is about 0.3 mph slower than my Galaxy, its much more comfortable and can go practically anywhere..

If I had a bike that was that slow it would be straight in the skip!

Al

[niggle]

"Well I found my average speed on the Subway down about 4mph on longer rides compared with the Overbury "

I think my Subway is about 0.3 mph slower than my Galaxy, its much more comfortable and can go practically anywhere..

If I had a bike that was that slow it would be straight in the skip!

Al

I am just guesstimating, maybe not that accurately and the difference may be less than that, but its definitely significant... Some of it is the hub I think so a derailleur geared Subway may well do better, but I am sure some of it is rolling resistance, some is weight (hub relevant again) and some is ride quality. As for going anywhere the bikes are pretty equal, though I did try the Subway with some suspension forks and 2" knobblies and that transformed it, suddenly it was just like a bona fide hard tail MTB and really flew on trails too rough for any rigid bike.

Another experiment, in normal rigid form, was to put some 1.25" (32mm) Sport Contacts on (given to me by a friend) and that made it quicker on smooth tarmac, but anything less than perfect was very buzzy and harsh compared with the Overbury on the same size tyres and similar pressures. I would agree the Subways would make very sound budget adventure tourers but for tarmac I definitely prefer the traditional steel bike.

[Shedmeister]

So i still dont quite understand the gears guys - i've also had a look at this bike: http://www.evanscycles.com/products/kon ... e-ec021823 and it shows the gears as 50/39/30. Does this mean that is not as good as cheaper bikes with say 48 38 28?

Also just caught an advert for the times - 30% off at evanscycles - did i hear that correctly????

[random37]

It's what's appropriate for the conditions and your levels of fitness. I wouldn't want a touring bike with a 50t chainring.

Also, in the pictures the racks aren't mounted properly. If you see a bike like that in a shop, walk away as it won't have been built properly.

Someone will tell me I don't know what I'm talking about, but disc brakes are not a wise choice for a touring bike. I've bent several rotors when I've had disc braked bikes in the past and ended up having to walk.

If you think you can stretch to £1000, I'd suggest one of these:

http://www.hewittbikefitting.co.uk/inde ... age=hewitt

If you get a fitting done (particularly sensible for touring bikes, where you're sat on them all day) and you subsequently buy one of their bikes, you get your money back on the fitting.

[ross980]

Just to chuck another suggestion into the ring - What about a Ridgeback Voyage? RRP is £700 - it's a very similar spec to a Dawes Horizon (24 speed STI levers/shifter, Reynolds frame etc. but has a Deore rear mech). I've just ordered one on C2W - the thing that swung it for me is the auxiliary CX style brake lever - perfect for the busy urban commute if like me you don't like being on the drops in traffic.

[squeaker]

So i still dont quite understand the gears guys

Sheldon Brown might help? The problem is that, as a newbie, you won't know what cadence is comfortable for you (albeit you can change it with practice). Some folk just like pedalling slowly, pushing the pedals hard in a high gear, whereas others prefer a faster pedalling speed ('spinning' with lower peak loads - kinder on your knees - for the same power output) using lower gears. (Personally I prefer to spin and don't find much use for anything over about 85": one can always free-wheel )

[ersakus]

Niggle,

On the Subway I have 1.75" Paselas pumped up to 65psi and I think there is a little extra rolling resistance compared with the 27" 32mm Paselas inflated to 80psi on the Galaxy, but its hard to tell exactly. I seem to achieve roughly the same average speed, although it feels slower? I find there is remarkable lack of vibration and harshness riding the Subway compared to the Galaxy, the main frame triangle is built of huge tubes and very rigid indeed, and the forks are solid steel tubes with no give at all. On one particular section of road which I always used to dread on the Galaxy, the Subway just floats over it with hardly a murmur. Because of that and the genuine off road abilitiy its a trade off I am happy with.

On the Galaxy I fitted a Kalloy adjustable stem so I could put the slight riser bars just where I wanted them. Possibly I think it was too long and high for me. It was an old one without the sloping top tube - ouch!

Al

Fat tyre doesn't mean slow, especially when the road is not so smooth. On the contrary they may prove to be more comfy and faster than a narrow tyre at the same weight.
I have two bikes one with 42mm (1.6") 650B tyres (GB Hetre) and one with 32mm 700C (pasela). 42mm tyre rolls faster. It takes 20 minutes to arrive at work with thick tyres versus 25min with 32mm paselas.

My new found wisdom is that fat but light tyres are good for touring.

[horizon]

I would eventually like to do that, but at the moment, as a complete novice i would like an instant bike to get the feel of and then at some point upgrade to a better bike that i can get cheap and build myself

I would back you on that one shedmeister. Whichever bike you buy won't be quite right for you but will be "right" as a bike. Get cycling and tweak it later. Much later, start putting your own bike together.

[kwackers]

Fat tyre doesn't mean slow, especially when the road is not so smooth. On the contrary they may prove to be more comfy and faster than a narrow tyre at the same weight.
I have two bikes one with 42mm (1.6") 650B tyres (GB Hetre) and one with 32mm 700C (pasela). 42mm tyre rolls faster. It takes 20 minutes to arrive at work with thick tyres versus 25min with 32mm paselas.

My new found wisdom is that fat but light tyres are good for touring.

5 minutes over a 20 minute ride!?

Surely the losses in the tyres aren't 25% before you start? Increases the losses by another 25% for the inefficient tyres seems very unlikely to me...
I only get 5 minutes back over my 45 min commute switching from my MTB with nobblies to my tourer (although I never bother riding the 'drops').