Cycling UK Forum

I have the Son 20 Dyno hub on two of my bikes and it is an absolute revelation. There is no noticeable drag with the lights off and it even spins a long time when the lights are on, especially in comparison to a Son 28, which I had previously. I forget the exact weight of the hub now, I did weigh it when it arrived, but when you subtract the weight of a normal front hub you only have an extra couple of hundred grams or so penalty.

I have the Edelux light on one bike and the Supernova E3 on the other along with the Supernova seatpost 3-LED rear light - and for me that is the best combination. The lights come on at slow speed, but over about 12mph the Supernova E3 is just as good as my previous Lupine Passubio, which cost £250 when new 5 years ago and now the battery is dead with a Lupine replacement battery costing over £100!

My bike is a proper 700C tourer but I like keeping things as simple and as lightweight as possible. I have done some research and from people who owned both hubs on 700C wheels, say that SON 20 (or nowadays delux) and SON 28, are both fine in powering modern led lights. My bike is used more for audaxy purposes and commutes on lit roads than loaded touring or rough stuff. This means my average speed is 12Mph and above. As I never intended to use halogen bulbs, I think, Son 28 will be an overkill for me. Weight difference is almost 200 grams and drag is less with SONdelux. I was worried about charging capabilities of SON delux but I saw a few people reporting excellent charging performance even with the lights on. THis is when ewerk regulator is used. I need charing on audaxes or longer tours and this is when I do speed. So I'm no longer worried about charing either.

For the front lights, IQ Cyo R Senso seems to be value for money and spreads a long and useful light (from peter white's picture comparision).

I am leaning towards Busch & Müller DToplight senso multi. This should hopefully be more reliable. Even if the dynamo or wiring fails, the battery inside should take over.

I can buy the more expensive supernova models but to me one of the reasons to go dynamo is to "fit and forget", to certain extent. With such expensive lights loosely screwed on my bike I'm not sure how relaxed I will be when parked in town centre or even at work. So to me IQ Cyo R Senso + Busch & Müller DToplight combo looks like a good enough chice in terms of light they will provide. I am sure they won't last as long as supernovas or edilux but most probably will lit the roads and be visible almost as good.

I could have perhaps added that I also use the Ewerk in combination with the Son 20 (it might be a deluxe, actually) and on a recent E-2-E, lightweight and fast camping touring, it charged up a battery pack and recharged my Garmin Edge 705, mobile and ipod every evening! Self-sufficiency personified!!

Excuse my limited knowledge:

If I wanted a front and back light that didn't require batteries on my Kona Smoke bike, what parts do I need?

(Thanks!)

songsforpolarbears wrote:Excuse my limited knowledge:

If I wanted a front and back light that didn't require batteries on my Kona Smoke bike, what parts do I need?

(Thanks!)

Dynamo hub (needs building into a wheel) or bottle dynamo, front dynamo light, rear dynamo light, wiring. That's the easy bit - the hard bit is deciding which models to buy, but there's no shortage of (experienced) advice on here.

Personally, I'd go for a hub dynamo. While they are more hassle to fit initially, they are almost totally reliable; they start at around £30. Bottle dynamos can slip in wet weather, but are cheaper. Busch and Muller make a range of dynamo headlights either halogen or LED, with or without standlight.

Thanks very much.

So, just one dynamo hub for two lights? Is it a front hub?

What is 'standlight'?

I haven't read the whole thread so apologies in advance for repeated or non-sequitur info.

So, just one dynamo hub for two lights? Is it a front hub?

yes; and yes, usually. I think Sturmey do or used to do a 3-speed/dynamo hub, but most are front hubs.

What is 'standlight'?

A standlight stays on for a few minutes after you stop, powered by charge accumulated while moving. Without it of course the light goes out immediately.

My partner and I both use Schmidt hub dynamos, we've had them a few years and both are going flawlessly.

We both now use Edelux front lights, and they're totally superb. The beam cuts off sharply at the top like a car's dipped beam, so it isn't necessarily the best for long-distance middle of the night stuff, as you don't see much of trees or hedges, but it puts a fantastic amount of light onto the road where you need it most. The only niggle is that the bottom edge of the beam also cuts off sharply so the yard or two in front of the bike is relatively dark. The build quality of the thing is phenomenal, though there are numerous comments on the net that the waterproofness isn't necessarily as tough as it looks.

The Edelux with a Schmidt gets to full brightness at about 4-5mph, slightly more if it's powering a rear light. Even if you go below that speed e.g. when winching up a brutal gradient, there'll still be enough to keep the the standlight going, and it's pretty bright.

I have a Busch & Muller Toplight on the back, runs off the dynamo from the front light but also has batteries so it doesn't go out when you stop, and saves the batteries while it's being powered by the dynamo - I think there's now one with a standlight, I wish I'd got that instead. As batteries in rear lights last so long anyway, I recently did away with the wire from front to back (interfered with pannier clips and I was too lazy to find a good route for it) and run the Toplight on its batteries.

The Schmidt hub seems to have hiked up in price recently, so with an Edelux it's going to be over £300 - plus in my opinion it's not worth dismantling your front wheel, if you can afford the extra just get a new rim and spokes and build a new wheel, then you still have the old one as a back up for summer day rides without the extra weight of the dynamo.

The IQ CYO mentioned above gets good comments all round and is a lot cheaper - I'd happily skimp on the lamp but NOT on the dynamo, I've used lots of bottle and bottom bracket dynamos over the years and always had problems of one sort or another, but since using the schmidt I've had no problems whatsoever.

One bit of advice - DON'T get a B&M Lumotec Topal, the build quality is like something you get in a christmas cracker, and it cost £70.

Before the Edelux I had a Solidlights, the XB2 version - excellent but dazzled motorists and cost a mint. Now I've fettled it all into a main/dipped malarky with a switch - viewtopic.php?f=5&t=42861, works superbly but I'd never have shelled out the whole cost of it in one go!

Just ordered the whole lot from Germany and the wheel from spa..
Really excited at the moment..

I even ordered ewerk and the cache battery as I use Gps and my mobile a lot.

It seems now there is even a more advance CYO R front light model which is called something like "CYO RT senso plus". The most advanced I could see in IQ cyo line. It basically recognises day and night and uses a sort of low/high beam setting. During the day the light is directed to oncoming drivers eyes to be more noticeable to them, when it is dark (tunnel or night time) the light activates the main led and cancels out the high beam leds so that motorists are not dazzled. It has standlight feature and also turns itself on when it is dark.

CYO RT senso plus looked really interesing and I could not resist for 12 Euros more!

Many thanks to all of you who contributed to this thread.

I will report back.

RJC wrote:There will be a Philips LED dynamo light in the future. From what I have seen it will probably be similar brightness & price to Cyo but maybe some difference in the beam pattern.

http://www.bikelight.philips.de/

Thanks for the link. Like the idea of an aluminium body, but no weight quoted (Battery version 119euro for 80lux with 2hr run time.)

2 hours on high power or 8 hours on low power.

compared to the IQ Ixon doing 6 hours on high power and 30 hours on low power*. The Ixon is possibly only half of the power of this Phillips in the two modes so it is a trade off between battery life and power.


*my times in practice, published figures are lower.

Any used the (budget) B&M LUMOTEC Lyt senso plus?

Pity there is not a photo of it on the very useful http://www.peterwhitecycles.com/headlights.asp page. That would have been interesting.

http://www.bike24.com/1.php?content=8;n ... ;orderby=2

This budget LED dynamo Basta headlamp from Bike24 Germany is pretty good at €10.90, though it's not in the Cyo league. Shipping to UK is fixed at €5.95, so it pays to order a bundle of other bits which you may need ( rear dynamo lights are cheap compared with UK). I've used them a few times and service has always been prompt.

just to poke me nose in here for a comment

i've got B&M lighting hooked up to a Shimano hub (disk brake version)

this hub does weigh more than original XT, non dynamo, hub and does produce drag when lights/ewerk are on/connected

when I lift front wheel off deck and spin - nothing on it spins for 8 secs, when lights are on it spins for 5 secs
think original xt hub would spin for about a minute or two using the same force, at a guess.

a SON hub was out of my price range at the time (2009) but this one came in at about £75 about 1/2 the price at least

As for the b&m lights
the front one, a Cyo, (2009 £77) is really good especially like the feature where it stores some juice so
when you stop (at traffic lights etc) it stays on, the rear one (2008 £35) stays on due to feature where 2 AA batteries
take over when hub output is zero.
The Cyo also has a auto setting on the on/off switch that means the light come on automatically when it gets dark.
kinda useful if you are going thru some rainy days when the light levels are varied

Both lights come on via same switch on the Cyo, so do not even have to stop to reach down and turn the switch.

Anyway have not done any large trips with this set-up, but TD would recomend the lights, not so sure about the
shimano hub v SON (maybe I made a mistake there)

Just converted this year to Shimano 3N80 hub and B&M lights Cyo front and toplight flatplus rear. I can find no difference on the road between my lights being off or on And no noticable drag when compared to riding without a dynamo. And I've just done a 10 mile TT course averaging 20.5 mph with it on by mistake.It really is free energy



By the way its lot cheaper to buy dynamos from Germany. backlight was half the price front was a good 20% cheaperand the hub laced into a wheel was a good £50 cheaper

Sonn possibly are the best but I'd say the differences are theoretical rather than real.

I was planning on buying the front hub and fitting it myself. Kona Smoke. 26 inch wheel. 36 spokes. It is a job that one can complete at home, right? I have no experience but was hoping I could find instructions to follow online.


There is another thread at the moment called 'All those Shimano hub dynamos... !' which some people reading this thread may find interesting. viewtopic.php?f=1&t=43264&start=0