Cycling UK Forum

I think "spellchecks" are part of the problem. The better option is to use a dictionary. I normally know when I've probably misspelt a word but sometimes I'm too lazy to check. If I were writing a report for work I would of course take the time to check.
My spelling has always been relatively poor. When I was at school I kept a spelling book in which I listed unusual or difficult words which I came across in books alongwith their meaning. I found that the same words came up repeatedly: words which were "useful" but insufficiently used for them to be imprinted on my brain.
I'm good with words now and I put it down to three things: being sent to verse-speaking classes to help my stammer; regularly reading a good quality newspaper or magazine; and expanding my vocabulary using the spelling book.
Reading simple poems out loud really gives you a real feeling for the use of language: its flow, intonation, emphasis and phrasing. It also gives you a "posh" accent which I have found of considerable benefit professionally although I doubt if it would be seen as such today given the fashionability of strong impenetrable regional accents.
Reading a good newspaper or magazine regularly also imparts a feeling for language and expands vocabulary.
There's great concern about boys leaving Primary School unable to read. I'm not surprised by the prevalence of poor word skills and impoverished language. From what I can see many parents simply "bark" monosyllabic commands to their children, their homes are devoid of books and if they read a newspapers it's something like the Sun which has a reading age of a "slow-learning" nine year-old.
No wonder the immigrants take the jobs.
jonty

I agree that literacy is important and I think it's something that needs to be dealt with reasonably early because it's the key to so much knowledge. It's my impression that a lot of people who get into trouble with the police have poor literacy skills. It's not easy to say "I cannot read" so as well as the obvious point that most decent jobs involve some reading and writing, anybody who just makes a guess at whet they are signing be it insurance applications or benefit claims is likely to make errors which are assumed to be caused by dishonesty rather than illiteracy. I cannot offer a solution other than spending more on primary education. Even then, we might end up with more literate burglars, I just don't know.

It's something that has concerned me most of my working life. In the 1970's I volunteered to help with the 'On the move' adult literacy project. That was well-intentioned and supported with BBC programmes but it seems to me that somebody who has reached adulthood and has fallen through the net needs more than a bit of help from a well-meaning volunteer. More recently I volunteered again under the Volunteer Reading Help scheme, which places volunteers in schools to help children catch up with their reading. That can be very rewarding when children begin to find fun in books rather than the fear of being shown up. I was sometimes disappointed that teachers would sometimes have preferred that I should help their good readers, rather than help the the others get back onto the bunch. Anyway, the arrival of grandchildren eventually put a stop to that. My elder grandson only started at school last term. They have a weekly session called 'shared reading' which involves a parent or grand parent going into school and read with their child and another selected by the child. (I don't know how widespread this is, or what the shock horror child protection implications are ) My grandson has picked a different partner every week and it takes about 10 seconds to spot whether the other child is used to sharing a book with an adult.

We are quickly moving into a new age of communication and the gerund is probably even more endangered than it was at St. Custard's in the time of Nigel Molesworth. The good communicators will thrive and the others will struggle. I'd prefer to see more £££ and effort put into giving as many children as possible good communication skills, rather than 'investing' in larger prisons.

Edit to add: I've realised that this may sound as though I am equating poor literacy with criminality, which was not my intention, but I do say that a disprotionate number of the people who end up in custody have difficulty with reading and writing.

Should we be that bothered about spelling and grammar as language is evolving all the time. Things I loathe are text and "gangsta" rap speak creeping into everyday language. And another thing is deleberately mispelt words like kwik, nite, donut and nu. If you live in Wales and do any translation in Welsh someone will come along and tell you it is wrong even though you have had it professionally translated.

Lawrie9 wrote:Should we be that bothered about spelling and grammar as language is evolving all the time. Things I loathe are text and "gangsta" rap speak creeping into everyday language. And another thing is deleberately mispelt words like kwik, nite, donut and nu. If you live in Wales and do any translation in Welsh someone will come along and tell you it is wrong even though you have had it professionally translated.

I never dare to "correct" any Welsh that i see no matter how obviously wrong it appears because there is no agreed correct Welsh.
There isnt even agreement on whether Tafarn is a male or female word for example.
I think such corrections are more political than linguistic. with plenty of infighting experts. .

German on the other hand DOES have a rule book, so you can say what is right or wrong.
That was you could until they pushed it too far and made it correct to spell words with sss in the middle which led to a popular revolt and a rewriting of the Duden!!
So careful all you pedantic experts dont push against the way the language is actually used because you will lose.

As for illiteracy, it may not make anybody more disposed towards criminality but the situation they are in will certainly cause them to be a lot more likely to be convicted of offences.

Lawrie9 wrote:Should we be that bothered about spelling and grammar as language is evolving all the time ...

That's what people keep saying to justify poor English, but language evolves surprisingly slowly, with the exception of vocabulary. Out of curiosity I just took an old book off the shelf: Catriona by Robert Louis Stevenson, who died in 1894. It's perfectly readable and the grammar and spelling are more or less the same as now.

The prisons are full of people who are illiterate.
I suppose there are many reasons why this is so. They may not be able to get a job except for labouring and there are few of those around these days or they may not be able to resolve "issues" through discussion and are therefore perhaps more likely to submit to enraged and frustrated violence.
Or they may simply have very low IQs and are unable to cope.
I still think more people are innumerate than illiterate. It's socially acceptable to say "I'm no good with numbers" but it's completely unacceptable to say "I have difficulty with reading and writing".
I'm amazed these days by the number of people who don't know what an "average" is. I've read somewhere that 40% of people don't understand a percentage, a ratio or a fraction.
Imagine having had about 10 years of schooling and not being able to read or write or do simple sums.
jonty

You will notice that a lot of schools have mission statements like "promoting excellence" also as TC said, when he went in to school to help with literacy the teachers wanted him to spend time improving the BEST pupils.
Seeing where schools like to place their effort, is it a surprise that we have such illiteracy.

School league tables dont count the number of illiterates do they?

A lot or in fact most of the people decrying the lack of education in others here may like to consider how many street educated North African kids would be horrified at the number of people claiming that they have had a good education but can still only speak one language.

patricktaylor wrote:

Lawrie9 wrote:Should we be that bothered about spelling and grammar as language is evolving all the time ...

That's what people keep saying to justify poor English, but language evolves surprisingly slowly, with the exception of vocabulary. Out of curiosity I just took an old book off the shelf: Catriona by Robert Louis Stevenson, who died in 1894. It's perfectly readable and the grammar and spelling are more or less the same as now.

Equally one could argue that, the overall point of 'should we be bothered' is not about justifying the use of poor English. It is just to give less weight to 'proper English' -whatever that is and its place in communication. Critiquing other's use of language is a means of discriminating against them i.e. they dont write or talk like me therefore they are lesser. But that is not my point.

Never mind the literacy or other wise of the media, perhaps in a world where language HAS changed and continues ever faster it is those who control the media that we should watch.

".. if News Corp succeeds in buying 100 per cent of Sky, Rupert Murdoch will end up owning nearly 40 per cent of the national press [UK] as well as a TV company that is twice the size of the BBC in terms of funding/revenue..."

Independant 22-12-10

Maybe Rupert will drive the standards of grammar up (from whatever age/period?).

I say the above as someone who loves beautiful language both written and spoken - as well at times 'yoof' or illiterate speak and it's writtern form.

Jonty wrote:I think "spellchecks" are part of the problem...
regularly reading a good quality newspaper or magazine; and expanding my vocabulary ...
Reading simple poems out loud really gives you a real feeling for the use of language: its flow, intonation, emphasis and phrasing. ..
No wonder the immigrants take the jobs.
jonty

Erh no I test myself against 'spellchecks' but each to their own.
Yes reading, reading, reading - Schopenhauer said reading is equivalent to thinking but with some one elses brain (I think it were he)
Yes, poems and written language of any form - if you restrict yourself (ones self) to the simple but mainstream I feel you/one? can lose out.


Aaaah, I cannot agree with you Sir on your final point. Low skilled/qualified immigrants usually end up taking the jobs because they tend to work hard and long and do jobs that Johnny Englishman cant be bothered to do in the main - toilet cleaning, fast food etc long hours, sometimes poor money (of course I am generalising to a degree). Plumbers, truckers, electricians et al may moan re immigrants working for less but they dont moan about the other 'advantages of the so-called free market.......

Why would I work for crap money when Welfare keeps me comfy (I have family who do this ) Why would I work for Carillion cleaning stairs and toilets for a pittance well if I can access welfare I will not. But if I aim to return to Goa in 5 years with a healthy wodge relative to what I can earn there then why not.

I am not too bothered about how people on this forum spell but what is most irritating is the use of the wrong word ie pedalling and peddling. This can be misleading and leads to the notion that they do not really know what they are talking about particularly in the case of so called professional journalists. Even more annoying to widen this a bit are journalists who have clearly no knowledge of the wider geography of this country and constantly refer to say the far north when they really mean Manchester which I suppose is about the middle ( of England anyway). One of the funniest writers on our local rag has appalling spelling and grammar but this is to an extent his trademark and strangely on serious occasions he can write correctly.Being able to be understood is most important and not making the effort to do this is not excusable.

They're Back! Those wonderful Church Bulletins! Thank God for church ladies with typewriters.
These sentences (with all the BLOOPERS) actually appeared in church bulletins or were announced in church services:

The Fasting & Prayer Conference includes meals.
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The sermon this morning: 'Jesus Walks on the Water.' The sermon tonight: 'Searching for Jesus.'
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Ladies, don't forget the rummage sale. It's a chance to get rid of those things not worth keeping around the house. Bring your husbands.
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Remember in prayer the many who are sick of our community. Smile at someone who is hard to love. Say 'Hell' to someone who doesn't care much about you.
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Don't let worry kill you off - let the Church help.
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Miss Charlene Mason sang 'I will not pass this way again,' giving obvious pleasure to the congregation.
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For those of you who have children and don't know it, we have a nursery downstairs.
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Next Thursday there will be tryouts for the choir. They need all the help they can get.
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Irving Benson and Jessie Carter were married on October 24 in the church. So ends a friendship that began in their school days.
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A bean supper will be held on Tuesday evening in the church hall. Music will follow.
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At the evening service tonight, the sermon topic will be 'What Is Hell?' Come early and listen to our choir practice
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Eight new choir robes are currently needed due to the addition of several new members and to the deterioration of some older ones.
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Scouts are saving aluminium cans, bottles and other items to be recycled. Proceeds will be used to cripple children.
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Please place your donation in the envelope along with the deceased person you want remembered.
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The church will host an evening of fine dining, super entertainment and gracious hostility..
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Potluck supper Sunday at 5:00 PM - prayer and medication to follow.
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The ladies of the Church have cast off clothing of every kind. They may be seen in the basement on Friday afternoon.
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This evening at 7 PM there will be a hymn singing in the park across from the Church. Bring a blanket and come prepared to sin.
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Ladies Bible Study will be held Thursday morning at 10 AM. All ladies are invited to lunch in the Fellowship Hall after the B. S. Is done.
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The pastor would appreciate it if the ladies of the Congregation would lend him their electric girdles for the pancake breakfast next Sunday.
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Low Self Esteem Support Group will meet Thursday at 7 PM. Please use the back door.
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The eighth-graders will be presenting Shakespeare's Hamlet in the Church basement Friday at 7 PM.. The congregation is invited to attend this tragedy.
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Weight Watchers will meet at 7 PM at the First Presbyterian Church. Please use large double door at the side entrance.
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The Associate Minister unveiled the church's new campaign slogan last Sunday: 'I Upped My Pledge - Up Yours'.

Why do people pronounce HAD as HAT?

Cos dey hat to, its a big ask innit uvverwise

That said while sat in my own little glass house...................... it used to drive me potty listening to people say 'wos' instead of 'what'...... I heard myself say 'wos that then' in a conversation t'other day That will be 20 years of living in Wiltshire that'll be.

Lucky I am not in the 'media'. As opposed to in this media.........