Good evening all,
Two things I wish advice on tonight regards my Shimano 105 Front chainwheel derailleur.
This problem is driving me bonkers.
What ever instructions I try I cannott set up the unit so that all three chainwheels except the chain, all the ways I try come to nothing, has any body got a simple way of setting up the tripple front changer to accomodate a ten cassett. I also have the 105 break levers
Also how if need be do I get hold of the Shimano instructions.
Regards
Cannott set up 105 Shimano Tripple chainset
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thirdcrank
- Posts: 36740
- Joined: 9 Jan 2007, 2:44pm
Tom
Your frustration jumps out of the screen and we've all been there but I am not sure exactly what bit of the setting-up is causing the problem.
There is some good general stuff, as usual, on Sheldon B.
http://www.sheldonbrown.com/derailer-adjustment.html#front
A couple of obvious things:
You have 105 levers and mech. Is the chainset a road triple?
(I think a shimano road mech may not work well with a mountain bike triple.)
If it is a road triple, has it got standard chainwheel sizes, (52 - 42- 30) or at least the right steps?
(I ask this because modern front changers are closely designed to work properly with pretty specific chainwheel sizes.)
Your frustration jumps out of the screen and we've all been there but I am not sure exactly what bit of the setting-up is causing the problem.
There is some good general stuff, as usual, on Sheldon B.
http://www.sheldonbrown.com/derailer-adjustment.html#front
A couple of obvious things:
You have 105 levers and mech. Is the chainset a road triple?
(I think a shimano road mech may not work well with a mountain bike triple.)
If it is a road triple, has it got standard chainwheel sizes, (52 - 42- 30) or at least the right steps?
(I ask this because modern front changers are closely designed to work properly with pretty specific chainwheel sizes.)
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reohn2
Are you sure the left STI unit is for a triple?
If it is and everything is in order as Thirdcrank has asked,it should be quite simple,slacken the bolt that holds cable to front changer so the cable is free.Then make sure the STI unit is in the granny ring position by changing down (three clicks with the small lever),adjust the cable adjuster so its about middle of the setting(left one on down tube).Check where the front changer is in relation to the granny ring ie with the bike in bottom gear on the back(big sprocket) it shouldn't be rubbing on the inside of the cage(but shouldn't be far off rubbing on the side nearest the seat tube) adjust with the limit screw on top of the changer if needs be (there are two one for high and one for low, low =granny ring)Connect the cable upto the front changer (with the cable taut),now change to the middle ring, the bike should change easily( by lifting back wheel and turning pedals.Next change to the big ring(should change easily again).Adjust the big ring(high) limit screw to suit(so the changer doesn't throw the chain past the big ring and off altogether)
Any minor adjustments can be done by the adjusting screw on the down tube.
Shimano instructions can be found on their website.I think its in technical spec(?)
Let us know how you get on.
If it is and everything is in order as Thirdcrank has asked,it should be quite simple,slacken the bolt that holds cable to front changer so the cable is free.Then make sure the STI unit is in the granny ring position by changing down (three clicks with the small lever),adjust the cable adjuster so its about middle of the setting(left one on down tube).Check where the front changer is in relation to the granny ring ie with the bike in bottom gear on the back(big sprocket) it shouldn't be rubbing on the inside of the cage(but shouldn't be far off rubbing on the side nearest the seat tube) adjust with the limit screw on top of the changer if needs be (there are two one for high and one for low, low =granny ring)Connect the cable upto the front changer (with the cable taut),now change to the middle ring, the bike should change easily( by lifting back wheel and turning pedals.Next change to the big ring(should change easily again).Adjust the big ring(high) limit screw to suit(so the changer doesn't throw the chain past the big ring and off altogether)
Any minor adjustments can be done by the adjusting screw on the down tube.
Shimano instructions can be found on their website.I think its in technical spec(?)
Let us know how you get on.
Sorry to mess you about folks, just bear with me a little (older generation). bought bike for retirement present for myself.
Longstaff Road bike all componants fitted from new, fitted with Shift lever type ST 5600
Front changer is FD 5603
For all the expense this is the first time I've come across a changer that is not marked up H L for adjustement on the casting. Which is which?
Can anybody explaine the simplest way of setting up this beast?
(Wish I had bought a b-----y simpler set up now
REgards all
Longstaff Road bike all componants fitted from new, fitted with Shift lever type ST 5600
Front changer is FD 5603
For all the expense this is the first time I've come across a changer that is not marked up H L for adjustement on the casting. Which is which?
Can anybody explaine the simplest way of setting up this beast?
(Wish I had bought a b-----y simpler set up now
REgards all
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thirdcrank
- Posts: 36740
- Joined: 9 Jan 2007, 2:44pm
Tom
Trimming refers to a system for minor adjusting of the front changer while riding. If the cage is clear of the chain at one end of a cassette, it is likely to rub when the chain is moved to the other end of the block. Trimming, allows a small movement of the cage using the shift levers, without a full gear change. (if you look at the top of this part of the forum, there is a sticky from cj about latest Campag and Shimergo. Apparently Campag are adopting this sytem. That sticky and threads about Shimergo - using Campag levers to avoid the problem you are having - explain the backgroun to your problem.)
Incidentally, if this was a new bike, rather than bought as a frame and components for self-assembly, I suggest the shop should be sorting this out.
Trimming refers to a system for minor adjusting of the front changer while riding. If the cage is clear of the chain at one end of a cassette, it is likely to rub when the chain is moved to the other end of the block. Trimming, allows a small movement of the cage using the shift levers, without a full gear change. (if you look at the top of this part of the forum, there is a sticky from cj about latest Campag and Shimergo. Apparently Campag are adopting this sytem. That sticky and threads about Shimergo - using Campag levers to avoid the problem you are having - explain the backgroun to your problem.)
Incidentally, if this was a new bike, rather than bought as a frame and components for self-assembly, I suggest the shop should be sorting this out.
Ref reohn 2
Done all you suggested,
still not happy with my results when changing up there ie more than three clicks I know a trimmer is used but can't quite get correct ,this system works on a 10 speed cassett which does not help things
I also have found instructions on web but still not correct
Thirdcrank,
You are absolutley right correct about shop should put it right, cable came loose and having had no trouble with other front changers in the past and pride plus a forty mile journey to Longstaffs in Stoke I thought it would be easier to adjust changer myself, silly me.
Thank you all for trying to help
Tom
Done all you suggested,
still not happy with my results when changing up there ie more than three clicks I know a trimmer is used but can't quite get correct ,this system works on a 10 speed cassett which does not help things
I also have found instructions on web but still not correct
Thirdcrank,
You are absolutley right correct about shop should put it right, cable came loose and having had no trouble with other front changers in the past and pride plus a forty mile journey to Longstaffs in Stoke I thought it would be easier to adjust changer myself, silly me.
Thank you all for trying to help
Tom
Update have taken club members advice taken bike back to shop for transmission adjustement,
I went out for a ride Sunday, peddling up a hill as luck woud have it sitting down, when I thought my freewheel was slipping, and on closer examination noticed that the chain was not engaging in the teeth of the chainwheel and when peddling the chain was slipping round.
On my way home it happend again not all the time but enough to cause concern.
Details
Transmission Shimano 105, Brake /gear levers Flight deck 105 STI 10 speed systems, front /rear changers Shimano 105, Chainset T A triple.
When having my bike checked I asked about the comptobility T A to Shimano and the reply was 98% and the reason was they had fitted them was to attain the touring gearing required, they commented Shimano 105 triple chainset were too high, indeed there were other custom built bikes with the same set up.
It seems to happen when in the two smallest casset gears changing down from largest chainwheel to middle one the chain almost makes it but not quite.
Am I doing anything wrong?
It seems that after waiting many years to attain my dream it is all going pear shaped
Any ideas am I doing anything wrong?
I went out for a ride Sunday, peddling up a hill as luck woud have it sitting down, when I thought my freewheel was slipping, and on closer examination noticed that the chain was not engaging in the teeth of the chainwheel and when peddling the chain was slipping round.
On my way home it happend again not all the time but enough to cause concern.
Details
Transmission Shimano 105, Brake /gear levers Flight deck 105 STI 10 speed systems, front /rear changers Shimano 105, Chainset T A triple.
When having my bike checked I asked about the comptobility T A to Shimano and the reply was 98% and the reason was they had fitted them was to attain the touring gearing required, they commented Shimano 105 triple chainset were too high, indeed there were other custom built bikes with the same set up.
It seems to happen when in the two smallest casset gears changing down from largest chainwheel to middle one the chain almost makes it but not quite.
Am I doing anything wrong?
It seems that after waiting many years to attain my dream it is all going pear shaped
Any ideas am I doing anything wrong?
I sympathise, I've also found Shimano triple STI to be a pain to get set up correctly.
Your most recent description makes it sound like the cable clamp/adjustment is set so that the big chainring position according to the cable is too far outboard, and it's been brought back in with the limit screws. Then when you change down a click for the middle ring, it's going to its natural position, unaffected by the limit screw, and is too far out for a clean shift.
I'd guess that you want to slack off the top gear limit screw, and then slack off the cable tension until the chain doesn't get thrown off when you change to big ring. Then tighten the cable tension up a little so it does just get thrown off, and do up the limit screw top stop it
I use Ultegra STI (6510) with 48/38/24 chainrings and 12-27 9-speed
Chainring sizes, which I don't think you've mentioned, can be a relevant factor in front shifting problems
a) 10-speed is irrelevant - 8 & 9 speed cassettes are the same width, and that's all that matters are far as the front setup is concerned.
b) The LH lever should, if it's the same as mine, have 4 positions (3 clicks).
These are:
1. big chainring, smallest 6 sprockets
2. middle chainring, smallest 6 sprockets
3. middle chainring, largest 6 sprockets
4. small chainring, largest 5 or 6 sprockets
If you try and use sprockets outside the range above, you will get scraping noises as the chain drags across the front mech sideplates. You don't need to use those gears, as they are all duplicated elsewhere, and extreme side to side angles are also bad for the chain.
c) the front mech should be set on the seat tube so that the outer plate clears the big chainring teeth by 1 or 2 mm as it crosses above them, and so that the outer plate is parallel to the chainring.
I must say, if Longstaff are handing over bikes that aren't correctly set up, they've gone downhill since I got my bike from them.
Your most recent description makes it sound like the cable clamp/adjustment is set so that the big chainring position according to the cable is too far outboard, and it's been brought back in with the limit screws. Then when you change down a click for the middle ring, it's going to its natural position, unaffected by the limit screw, and is too far out for a clean shift.
I'd guess that you want to slack off the top gear limit screw, and then slack off the cable tension until the chain doesn't get thrown off when you change to big ring. Then tighten the cable tension up a little so it does just get thrown off, and do up the limit screw top stop it
I use Ultegra STI (6510) with 48/38/24 chainrings and 12-27 9-speed
Chainring sizes, which I don't think you've mentioned, can be a relevant factor in front shifting problems
a) 10-speed is irrelevant - 8 & 9 speed cassettes are the same width, and that's all that matters are far as the front setup is concerned.
b) The LH lever should, if it's the same as mine, have 4 positions (3 clicks).
These are:
1. big chainring, smallest 6 sprockets
2. middle chainring, smallest 6 sprockets
3. middle chainring, largest 6 sprockets
4. small chainring, largest 5 or 6 sprockets
If you try and use sprockets outside the range above, you will get scraping noises as the chain drags across the front mech sideplates. You don't need to use those gears, as they are all duplicated elsewhere, and extreme side to side angles are also bad for the chain.
c) the front mech should be set on the seat tube so that the outer plate clears the big chainring teeth by 1 or 2 mm as it crosses above them, and so that the outer plate is parallel to the chainring.
I must say, if Longstaff are handing over bikes that aren't correctly set up, they've gone downhill since I got my bike from them.
Tom wrote:Chainset T A triple ... the reason was they had fitted them was to attain the touring gearing required, they commented Shimano 105 triple chainset were too high.
There's your problem, although the reasons given by the shop are very sound, for a mech to be capable of front indexing the teeth need to be in just the right place. Smaller rings take the teeth further away from the cage. It may still shift nevertheless, but Shimano offer no guarantees.
FD-5603 is designed to work with a 30,39,50 chainset. Interaction during any shift is with the teeth of the larger ring of the pair. So the inner can be smaller if you like, but the middle to outer difference is critical, or else the middle ring will not be where the cage is designed to find it. You might get away with an outer up to 4 teeth smaller provided the middle-outer difference is the same. So 24,35,46 could be okay, but 24,37,48 is more likely to work.
Chris Juden
One lady owner, never raced or jumped.
One lady owner, never raced or jumped.
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thirdcrank
- Posts: 36740
- Joined: 9 Jan 2007, 2:44pm
Tom
In the absence of a reply from anyone else, the whole point of the Carmina set-up is its flexibility. Instead of the right hand crank being made in one piece with a spider of road, atb, or some other size, it has what was once called an adaptor and they now seem to call a detachable spider. These adaptors come in just about every normal size imaginable so the cranks can take just about any size of ring. On the other hand, since this stuff costs an arm and a leg and you need a full set of arms and legs to ride your dream bike, I should try to sort it with the minimum change from what you have already coughed up for.
I really do know how you feel. If you splash out a bit thinking you are going to get something special and things go wrong it just makes the misery worse.
In the absence of a reply from anyone else, the whole point of the Carmina set-up is its flexibility. Instead of the right hand crank being made in one piece with a spider of road, atb, or some other size, it has what was once called an adaptor and they now seem to call a detachable spider. These adaptors come in just about every normal size imaginable so the cranks can take just about any size of ring. On the other hand, since this stuff costs an arm and a leg and you need a full set of arms and legs to ride your dream bike, I should try to sort it with the minimum change from what you have already coughed up for.
I really do know how you feel. If you splash out a bit thinking you are going to get something special and things go wrong it just makes the misery worse.
I guess you're at the shop now, so this may be too late, but I have the TA catalogue in front of me and Zephyr pattern chainrings (to fit the spider you already have) are made in all the sizes I indicated. Whether anyone in this country keeps them in stock however ...
Chris Juden
One lady owner, never raced or jumped.
One lady owner, never raced or jumped.