How To Remove John Snow as CTC President

[Karen Sutton]

I agree T.T.

Every year there is a cock up when we renew our membership.
One year although we paid for both - my membership had not been renewed by the CTC and I only found out when I came to renew the following year presumably leaving me with no insurance for the whole year. Last year both cards came with previous years expiry date, neither have the correct membership starting date and the camping carne we bought from CTC was hand written and completely illegible causing embarassment at foreign campsites. (We get them from the camping club now).
And the Magazine isnt worth having.

The only reason we stay is for the insurance.

Good idea R2 - but I think it will need more than three of us

Jac,
You could always go elsewhere for your Insurance if that's all you want.

Personally I think we need an organisation to campaign for the rights of all cyclists. I used to be only a leisure cyclist but don't drive any more so I'm a utility cyclist as well now. I want CTC to be there to ensure that I may continue to ride to the supermarket etc.

And cycle tourists want to ride on the public highway too. If CTC went back to just Cycle Touring who would campaign for the leisure cyclists/ tourists to ride on the roads??

[Jac]

I agree T.T.

Every year there is a cock up when we renew our membership.
One year although we paid for both - my membership had not been renewed by the CTC and I only found out when I came to renew the following year presumably leaving me with no insurance for the whole year. Last year both cards came with previous years expiry date, neither have the correct membership starting date and the camping carne we bought from CTC was hand written and completely illegible causing embarassment at foreign campsites. (We get them from the camping club now).
And the Magazine isnt worth having.

The only reason we stay is for the insurance.

Good idea R2 - but I think it will need more than three of us

Jac,
You could always go elsewhere for your Insurance if that's all you want.

Personally I think we need an organisation to campaign for the rights of all cyclists. I used to be only a leisure cyclist but don't drive any more so I'm a utility cyclist as well now. I want CTC to be there to ensure that I may continue to ride to the supermarket etc.

And cycle tourists want to ride on the public highway too. If CTC went back to just Cycle Touring who would campaign for the leisure cyclists/ tourists to ride on the roads??

Perhaps I will look elsewhere for my insurance next year - and from what I hear there might be a lot of other CTC members doing the same!

It was not all I wanted from the CTC when I became a member but it would seem that if you dont live in London its all you get!!!!

[Karen Sutton]

It was not all I wanted from the CTC when I became a member but it would seem that if you dont live in London its all you get!!!!

Jac,

I'm very puzzled about this comment. What exactly do you think London CTC members get that members in other parts of the country don't? As a matter of fact CTC is based in Guildford, not London; although I believe Simon may have already pointed this out.

And what exactly were you hoping for from CTC? If you don't tell how can they know? You have complained a lot about what CTC haven't told you but as far as I can see all you need to know is on the website. It would seem that you may have expected the whole history of CTC, its policies and future strategies mailed to you when you joined

[Terry T]

Jac, one thing I have learnt recently, is that the CTC is no longer a club, it's a business, pure and simple, and like all businesses, it exists solely for the benefit of the people who run it.

[thirdcrank]

I originally thought that getting JS as president was a bit of a coup. Bearing in mind the fact that he is both a cyclist and no shrinking violet, you might have thought that whoever recruited him would have made sure where he stood on issues such as separate provision but it seems not.

Do we

1/ Change the policy?
2/Change the president?
3/Muddle on?

Ring Richard and Judy also on Channel 4. Calls cost an arm and a leg and nobody is listening.

Mick Agar.

[Simon L6]

I originally thought that getting JS as president was a bit of a coup. Bearing in mind the fact that he is both a cyclist and no shrinking violet, you might have thought that whoever recruited him would have made sure where he stood on issues such as separate provision but it seems not.

Do we

1/ Change the policy?
2/Change the president?
3/Muddle on?

Ring Richard and Judy also on Channel 4. Calls cost an arm and a leg and nobody is listening.

Mick Agar.

all fair questions. I think the answer to the first is no, but that's just my opinion.

[snowfall]

I don't know how anyone managed to find the guy's private email but I agree with the mod that what is private can't go out exc with consent. I'd call that moderation, not censorship.

But Snow does not make it easy to contact him. If you want use C4's contact box - it does not give you anyone's email and it is public - its' there to get comments, why not? It's on their site http://help.channel4.com/SRVS/CGI-BIN/W ... r,Company=
{2EA1BB9C-510E-44A5-A481-01EB1DDA1669},VARSET_PA=sa_General,VARSET_TITLE=General,Case=Obj(2085),
VARSET_OBJECTNAME=Contact%20Us

[thirdcrank]

The only time I ever had to contact JS (over a Ch 4 news item) I wrote him a letter. I got a personal handwritten reply very quickly explaining he had checked, they had made a silly mistake and they would try to do better in future. So he does respond to contact.

I hope nobody is questioning the integrity, sincerity or competence of the man.

The point is, no matter how great his personal excellence and fame, if he disagrees with a fundamental and long-standing policy, and is identified as the CTC President when he promotes an alternative, then he is hardly the right person. People are frustrated because no matter what is happening behind closed doors, all that can be seen in public is the ostrich's tail feathers.

[Terry T]

The only time I ever had to contact JS (over a Ch 4 news item) I wrote him a letter. I got a personal handwritten reply very quickly explaining he had checked, they had made a silly mistake and they would try to do better in future. So he does respond to contact.

I hope nobody is questioning the integrity, sincerity or competence of the man.

The point is, no matter how great his personal excellence and fame, if he disagrees with a fundamental and long-standing policy, and is identified as the CTC President when he promotes an alternative, then he is hardly the right person. People are frustrated because no matter what is happening behind closed doors, all that can be seen in public is the ostrich's tail feathers.

I agree entirely.
We need to petition HQ, as this forum is largely ignored by the businessmen running the CTC.

[Jac]

It was not all I wanted from the CTC when I became a member but it would seem that if you dont live in London its all you get!!!!

Jac,

I'm very puzzled about this comment. What exactly do you think London CTC members get that members in other parts of the country don't? As a matter of fact CTC is based in Guildford, not London; although I believe Simon may have already pointed this out.

And what exactly were you hoping for from CTC? If you don't tell how can they know? You have complained a lot about what CTC haven't told you but as far as I can see all you need to know is on the website. It would seem that you may have expected the whole history of CTC, its policies and future strategies mailed to you when you joined

I am quite well aware of the location of the CTC; it's location is irrelevant.
The policy of integrated traffic and the principle campaign is to improve cycling in London.

Besides pointing out where the CTC is located Simon has also said on the ACF
'Our message in London is that cycling is increasing exponentially, that TfL and LCC are doing a first rate job, that there is more to come, that it's all good. Because if it's not good in London you can forget it for the rest of the country'

Well London is not a reflection of the situation in other cities in the country.
And the strtegies and solutions for urban areas are not necessarily applicable to rural areas.
The conditions for cyclist in this part of the country have got considerably worse over the last ten years and nothing is being done to make them better.

And just to reiterate;
I did not expect to have to find out the CTC policies from a website - which many members may not even have access to.

[essexman]

Give the guy a break! The guardian article opens with a powerful anecdote that illustrates the way cyclists are treated on roads.

He then goes on to highlight the inequality of spending vs usage that cyclists recieve and also highlights the stupidness of the current green strips in london. He even highlights the failure of SUSTRANS and NCN in affecting commuting habits vs recreational.

He's talking about taking road space from cars in london for bikes only. If this was introduced to create some arterial routes into and across london, you could transform londons transport system.

I ride on the road all the time. Often they are solid with traffic, and jammed with cyclist trying to squeeze down the gap between two lanes of stationary traffic. I wouldnt mind one of those lanes being for bike only , no siree......

Yes he's london centric. Thats where politics goes on, so he's in the right place. His suggestion would work well for London, not so for other areas. Dont be dogmatic.

[Si]

An underlying theme that seems to flow through many posts in this thread is 'what do you see the CTC as?'.

How do you treat it:

Do you pay your fees once a year and then let those-who-know-about-these-things spend it in the way that they see fit, hoping that this way also matches your requirements?

Or do you see the CTC as a support organisation, you pay your money so that they will support you in the cycling oriented efforts that you are making. They put in place a network of facilities to help you campaign, organise sections, do rides, etc.

The former treats the CTC as a company: you, as a customer, pay it to look after cycling (in its various forms) in this country.
The latter treats it as a club - you are the member and you are looking after cycling, the club is supporting you in this.

I'm not saying that either of these approaches is wrong, just different ways of going about the same thing. Some CTC people will choose the former, others the latter.

Personally, I go for the latter. The only people that are going to sort out the problems of cyclists in my area are the cyclists in my area. These problems are not just campaigning issues, but getting more people to ride, organising rides, showing people where to ride, etc - i.e. encouraging and advancing cycle-touring. I've joined my local section, am on the committee, organise the odd event, lead rides and am an RTR. Without the CTC as a whole to support me in doing these things I doubt very much that I'd be doing them. That's how the CTC works for me.

Therefore, I see those at head office, not being the people that should be leading the CTC and me as a member, but rather, as the people who should be listening to what I need to promote cycling and putting those facilities in place to help me. Fair enough, there is a lot of knowledge on cycle campaigning amoungst this group at the top of the CTC, and they should use this to help the membership and suggest how the membership should go forward. But should they be allowed to plough forward without the backing of the membership? I think not. Thus, if what comes out of HO and the upper echelons (inc the pres.) is counter productive to what the ordinary member on the ground is striving for, then it needs to be stopped ASAP. Ditto concerning the HO's seeming dimminishing support for the DAs - the very building blocks of what the CTC is.

I think I'll stop my rant now as I've forgotten what the point I was trying to make was at the beginning something along the lines of Snow should be removed (in as diplomatic way as possible), but the membership also have to make their views known, so don't just sit there, get onto your Section/DA committee or Councillor, or even email the relivant people at HO - make sure they know what we want.

[Karen Sutton]

[quote="Jac"]
The conditions for cyclist in this part of the country have got considerably worse over the last ten years and nothing is being done to make them better.

I think that If you expect CTC to have a presence in every town in the UK to improve conditions for cyclists you would be looking to pay more than £35.00 for your membership. The right to ride network do the local campaigning. That is why CTC local campaigning must necessarily be limited. These Right to Ride officers are volunteers, and most have paid employment as well.

Reflect on how much campaigning you do yourself to improve conditions where you live. Why not contact your local R to r rep and see what you can do to help?

You say you think you may look elsewhere for your insurance next year. I think you'll find that paying for that one item from another organisation will cost you much of that £35.00 you paid this year to CTC. I don't know what people expect for this subscription. Have a think about it.

[Terry T]

When I first joined the CTC in the 70s, I was encouraged to do so as a touring cyclist. The club (dirty word I know), has changed, I haven't.
As I have said many times, and will continue to say, the CTC is stretched too thinly. It is too many things to too many people.
I remain a member as it is a requirement for DA activities, and the insurance, nothing else. I am considering joining BC as the insurance package is cheaper.
The views of the president aren't my views, so what option have I got?
If the CTC hasn't got the spondulix to campaign outside London, why bother at all?
This is becoming a club almost exclusively for London commuters.
I wish the local DAs would break away from this monster the CTC has become.

[Jac]

Karen Sutton - my comment about the conditions for cyclists getting worse in the last ten years, and nothing being done about it, was part of the answer to your question of what do cyclists in London get that others dont.

In fact you have now answered your own question and admitted with your explaination that you know that campaigning by the CTC outside London is limited.

If you look back through the thread I think you will find that it was your suggestion that I look elswhere for insurance.

What arrogance to tell me to reflect upon what I do or to 'have a think' about anything.
I dont presume to tell you what to do.
The point remains - cyclists in London have far more terms of campaigning from their CTC subscription than those outside London - and the solutions in London are not necessarily those that would benifit cyclists outside large Cities.