[quote="] ....
Yes he's london centric. Thats where politics goes on, so he's in the right place. His suggestion would work well for London, not so for other areas. Dont be dogmatic.[/quote]
Hello from the frozen north if I can just put my whippit to one side and take my cloth cap and silk scarf off...ah thats better.
Politics happens everywhere as does spin.
There are a lot more 'other' areas in fact many more than London.Not only do our politrickians thinking the the centre of the world is London,now we have the the president of the CTC thinking the same thing.
Dogma is not my strong point,
How To Remove John Snow as CTC President
Jac wrote:Karen Sutton wrote:Jac wrote:
Besides pointing out where the CTC is located Simon has also said on the ACF
'Our message in London is that cycling is increasing exponentially, that TfL and LCC are doing a first rate job, that there is more to come, that it's all good. Because if it's not good in London you can forget it for the rest of the country'
.
Jac - you have entirely mistaken my meaning - and I must apologise for not making myself more clear. What I might have said was this
'John Snow would have us believe that cycling in London is in a bad way. It's not. It's booming. If we were to believe that cycling in London is in a bad way, then we would neccessarily believe also that cycling in the rest of the country was doomed'.
Simon - you might of said that but what you actually said was what I quoted.
My understanding was that it refered to the CTC not specifically Jon Snow. And I dont believe I took it out of context.
I would have cut and pasted the whole section had I been able to but as you know it was on another forum - and I beleive I have quoted it accurately.
Besides it is immaterial now - Karen Sutten has already confirmed the point I was making that CTC campaigning outside of London is very limited.
My understanding was that it refered to the CTC not specifically Jon Snow. And I dont believe I took it out of context.
I would have cut and pasted the whole section had I been able to but as you know it was on another forum - and I beleive I have quoted it accurately.
Besides it is immaterial now - Karen Sutten has already confirmed the point I was making that CTC campaigning outside of London is very limited.
-
thirdcrank
- Posts: 36740
- Joined: 9 Jan 2007, 2:44pm
-
Pinky
As a late comment on this topic -- when J Snow was selected ( not elected) by the paid salaried staff of CTC I expressed my missgivings very clearly by email to the head office. The reply I got was that I was a lone voice crying in the wilderness ( my reading of the reply I received).
My original opinion that Snow was an inept choice stands. It is, IMO, symptomatic of CTC's loosing its way and distancing itself with the grass roots members across the country. How can the president of CTC continue to make statements which are not approved by the majority of CTC members. Of course he can -- he is not elected and we as members have absolutely no say in his appointment or indeed of his deposition!
My original opinion that Snow was an inept choice stands. It is, IMO, symptomatic of CTC's loosing its way and distancing itself with the grass roots members across the country. How can the president of CTC continue to make statements which are not approved by the majority of CTC members. Of course he can -- he is not elected and we as members have absolutely no say in his appointment or indeed of his deposition!
Jac wrote:
Besides it is immaterial now - Karen Sutten has already confirmed the point I was making that CTC campaigning outside of London is very limited.
I cannot for the life of me work out how you came to that conclusion from Karen's post. She simply says that things have got worse outside of London, for all that they have got better in London. It's not a question of the CTC campaigning in London, and not elsewhere - that simply isn't true. On a local level I do go around trying to get things done in London, but that's because I live in London. My friend Michael goes around trying to get things done in Southend, but that's because he lives in Southend. I've invited Terry to get moving on Basildon because he lives in Basildon (a town that is far more intimidating to cycle in than London). That's how it works. A member decides to get involved, they get a bit of help and advice from the National Office, and off they go. Feel free to give it a go.
What truly defeats me is how on earth do you make out that the CTC National Office campaigning outside of London is limited???! Every campaign we've run has been nationwide with one obvious exception - the Telford One - and that was taken on because it had national implications and had attracted national interest. If we were to be accused of Telfordcentricity then that would be harder to shake off.
Ho-hum
Last edited by Simon L6 on 8 Mar 2007, 8:08am, edited 1 time in total.
snowfall wrote:I don't know how anyone managed to find the guy's private email but I agree with the mod that what is private can't go out exc with consent. I'd call that moderation, not censorship.
But Snow does not make it easy to contact him. If you want use C4's contact box - it does not give you anyone's email and it is public - its' there to get comments, why not? It's on their site http://help.channel4.com/SRVS/CGI-BIN/W ... r,Company=
{2EA1BB9C-510E-44A5-A481-01EB1DDA1669},VARSET_PA=sa_General,VARSET_TITLE=General,Case=Obj(2085),
VARSET_OBJECTNAME=Contact%20Us
Snowfall - as you yourself know, Jon Snow does not work at Channel 4. He works at ITN.
Once again - for those of you siezed with a desire to write - do so. Post up a copy on this board. Copy it to your Councillor. If you want to write to him via Kevin Mayne then do that.
Simon - this is what made me think that - she wrote it
I think that If you expect CTC to have a presence in every town in the UK to improve conditions for cyclists you would be looking to pay more than £35.00 for your membership. The right to ride network do the local campaigning. That is why CTC local campaigning must necessarily be limited. These Right to Ride officers are volunteers, and most have paid employment as well.
Jac wrote:Simon - this is what made me think that - she wrote itI think that If you expect CTC to have a presence in every town in the UK to improve conditions for cyclists you would be looking to pay more than £35.00 for your membership. The right to ride network do the local campaigning. That is why CTC local campaigning must necessarily be limited. These Right to Ride officers are volunteers, and most have paid employment as well.
I read that as 'local' as opposed to 'national', not as opposed to 'London specifc', because London is local to those who campaign there.
For instance, I wouldn't expect the CTC as a whole to be badgering my local council about a particular and unique defect at the end of my road, I'd do that my self (a local matter). But I would expect them to be badgering the govt (who happen to be based in London) about a particular type of defect that might be found on roads right across the country (a national matter).
Si - I was not refering to 'defects at the end of the road' as can be see quite clearly throughout the thread.
And I took it in the context of the discussion which all along has been
about the campaigning strategy of the CTC being focused on London and often more appropriate to London than some other parts of the country.
And I do local matters myself as well.
Recently after a two year campaign I initiated managed to get a local deristricted stretch of road reduced to 30mph and a pedestrian crossing installed - thats just in answer to the comments of why dont I do something myself to improve my local area.
And I took it in the context of the discussion which all along has been
about the campaigning strategy of the CTC being focused on London and often more appropriate to London than some other parts of the country.
And I do local matters myself as well.
Recently after a two year campaign I initiated managed to get a local deristricted stretch of road reduced to 30mph and a pedestrian crossing installed - thats just in answer to the comments of why dont I do something myself to improve my local area.
Jac and Terry - can you show me one campaign run from the CTC National Office which is particular to London? Just the one would do - because I can't think of one. Anything that happens in London is done by local volunteers with the same sort of help and advice that any other local volunteer would get.
Si is absolutely smack on the money. National does not mean London - but let's widen the net. Show me one national campaign that has more relevance to London than any other part of the country. Helmets? Highway Code? Fillthathole? The trail campaign is hardly relevant to the West End.
Si is absolutely smack on the money. National does not mean London - but let's widen the net. Show me one national campaign that has more relevance to London than any other part of the country. Helmets? Highway Code? Fillthathole? The trail campaign is hardly relevant to the West End.
Jac wrote:Si - I was not refering to 'defects at the end of the road' as can be see quite clearly throughout the thread.
And I took it in the context of the discussion which all along has been
about the campaigning strategy of the CTC being focused on London and often more appropriate to London than some other parts of the country.
The road defect was quite plainly given as a single example.
Because you took the context one way does not mean that it was meant that way by the writer or that everyone else took it the same way as you. I see no supporting evidence to take it that way.
And much as I hate to agree with Mr L:
Show me one national campaign that has more relevance to London than any other part of the country
If you cannot answer this then your argument doesn't stand up. You are arguing that the CTC focuses on London, Simon asks for evidence, and you appear to refuse to give it, instead you accuse Simon of "browbeating"....all I can see is debate.