HS2

Tangled Metal
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Re: HS2

Post by Tangled Metal »

fullupandslowingdown wrote:The alternative is that we stop breeding so fast. My manifesto: no procreation before you're 36.7 years old, and then only once. That will start to bring down the population thereby reducing the need for travel and energy and food.

Fertility andq virility drop off significantly from about 30 years of age. Leaving procreation to late 30s for all will lead to more childless couples, more expense due to fertility treatments and greater chances of various foetal conditions or chromosomal deformities. It's better to limit procreation to say 25 to 30 years of age. Of course not really equitable for boomers to do what they want then dictate to generation X, Z or whatever.
fullupandslowingdown
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Re: HS2

Post by fullupandslowingdown »

The reason for mandating a higher age is simple. When there aren't any mass extinction events or cornish flu depopulating macdonalds and primark, the population will rise generation after generation even with a one sprog only out policy, because with average life expectancy the break even age works out to be 28 point something. If people procreate any younger then the grandparents aren't passing on soon enough to make room for the grandchildren. It's maths, which is why in Logan's run they vaporised all the oldies, and in Soylent Green we ate all the oldies, so it's not actually a new idea.

Put the age higher then you can then achieve my goal of world population reduction, which is key to saving the environment. But people being the selfish stubborn shortsighted muppets that they are, won't agree to such measures, so the world is doomed to an ever increasing human population requiring ever more non renewable resources. It's not just about energy use and CO2 emissions or even drinkable water, which are getting the headlines now. It's tomorrow's headlines about land for housing and transport, and support facilities. It's the scarcity of jobs. Technology is becoming increasingly efficient, fewer humans are needed to do many roles. The only roles that are increasing is in caring. Even teaching could be done by IT in the future.

The arguments for and against HS2 are like a foretaste of the greater issues. The reason why we are even considering schemes like HS2 and HS3 in the future is because of our desire for consuming ever more resources, with our ever increasing population.
If we keep on breeding like entitled rabbits on a production bonus, we will be fighting each other for scarce resources very soon.

Oh and the argument that baby boomers and generation Xs have no business telling their children and grandchildren not to continue this mad dash to the cliffedge, is barmy. A bit like suggesting that someone who used to smoke shouldn't dissuade children from starting to smoke, or someone who left the scientologists been prohibited from warning students that they are a secretive controlling cult designed to take your money away from you. But then youngsters traditionally always do have to make mistakes themselves in order to learn, they never have been able to accept received wisdom. I've got the hangovers to prove that :lol:

Secondly, most people have only just started to wake up about the near future probability of global catastrophe caused by excess population. Some of us have been shouting into the dark windy nights for the last 40 years or more with the majority of people laughing at us for being pessimistic doomsayers. Recent fires in Australia, the worst they have ever had, recent floods in the UK almost the worst ever recorded despite all the flood prevention measures of the last 10 years, plagues of locusts overseas, some of the biggest ever seen. All this of course isn't mother earth warning us is it.

So yeah, ideally, I'd say shelf the HS2 altogether. Spend a bit of money on improving the existing network by electrification. And spend the bulk of the money addressing the underlying cause of climate change which is unsustainable population growth. The only reason to argue for HS2 is if we do continue as we are in regards to using resources without restraint. Then at least HS2 allows us to do so more effectively.

Hobson's choice. Continue to see some deranged benefit in everyone commuting miles to work each day passing each other along the way. Continue to replace electronics for the latest, not because it's unrepairable. Continue to go on pubcrawls in the next city where you're not yet barred from every pub. Continue to order clothing to wear just once for afore mentioned night out, before returning it as "wrong size" And continue to build more transport.

Or start growing up and accepting that having children isn't actually a human right. It's a lottery as any other animal species will tell you. Once you're born then you have rights to stay alive and well, but passing your genes on isn't one of them. In fact the concept of having to pass on your genes is the very basis for racism and wars between countries. By logically induction, if you feel it is so important to pass on your genes, that implies that you don't wish to treat other's as equals. Harsh, but that's Freud and half a dozen Greek philosophers for you.

17 Nov 2018 - Dr Robin Hadley, 58, and childless by circumstance, recently completed a PhD exploring the experiences of ... the childlessness rate is around 20% for women in the UK and 25% for men.


No. actually I'll retract. If you can fully and completely support without recourse to public funding of any kind, and somehow only from your own 0.000000029% share of natural resources in the UK, support your sprogs, you can have as many as you want. Just don't ask everyone else to pick up the bills for childcare, education, health, food and water supplies. I for one, is a wee bit tired of supporting big families on the dole, let alone feckless absent father's shenanigans.
Tangled Metal
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Re: HS2

Post by Tangled Metal »

Boomers were biggest players in creating the cliff edge whichever cliff edge you're thinking of. Time to listen to other generations and sack any boomers left in positions of power....perhaps?!
Bmblbzzz
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Re: HS2

Post by Bmblbzzz »

fullupandslowingdown wrote:I don't have to hand the actual research figures, but I recall reading an article on high speed train travel that upset me a little as I am a diehard fan of railways. Basically, just like in a car or anything else, the faster you go, the more wind resistance you face, and even the best aerodynamic designs still face wind resistance. For a train accelerating to maximum speed of 400kmh,

Screenshot 2020-02-25 at 20.05.54.png
Image


But note that for any given speed, a non-stop train - which is effectively what HS2 services will be - uses not much more than half the speed of a stopping service.
Bonefishblues
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Re: HS2

Post by Bonefishblues »

Tangled Metal wrote:
fullupandslowingdown wrote:The alternative is that we stop breeding so fast. My manifesto: no procreation before you're 36.7 years old, and then only once. That will start to bring down the population thereby reducing the need for travel and energy and food.

Fertility andq virility drop off significantly from about 30 years of age. Leaving procreation to late 30s for all will lead to more childless couples, more expense due to fertility treatments and greater chances of various foetal conditions or chromosomal deformities. It's better to limit procreation to say 25 to 30 years of age. Of course not really equitable for boomers to do what they want then dictate to generation X, Z or whatever.

Indeed. Been there got the t shirt.

In other news Chris Packham has launched an action against HS2 along the lines of the recently successful challenge against Heathrow expansion.
fullupandslowingdown
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Re: HS2

Post by fullupandslowingdown »

Good luck to Chris, he'll need it, along with the hunting and frying lobby he will now be in danger of been steamrolled by annoyed railway supporters.
The grand aspect of all of this, is that, except for a few, most people do accept that debate about such major decisions is good. It's a lot better than living in some totalitarian state like China, North Korea or Hull. I don't want to imagine what it's like been unable or unsafe to express my opinion on all sorts of topics without the risk of imprisonment and torture like wot the Chinese authorities are now doing to the Uighurs. Thats very 1984ish.

Long live freedom :D
Cyril Haearn
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Re: HS2

Post by Cyril Haearn »

Love railways hate hs2
I used to use slow trains that got even slower when fast trains bullied them out of the way, instead of crossing the platform, five minutes change one waits 40 minutes AND it is slower than before
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basingstoke123
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Re: HS2

Post by basingstoke123 »

Cyril Haearn wrote:
mikeymo wrote:
John Holiday wrote:Utter madness.
Have never had a reasonable explanation as to why we cannot extend existing infrastructure & run longer trains, rather than destroying huge swathes of valuable countryside by new line.


How about the "reasonable explanation", repeated, over and over and over again, by people who actually seem to have some clue about how railways work, that having slow commuter trains and high speed long distance trains ON THE SAME TRACK, reduces capacity:

"A mix of train speeds is particularly damaging to route capacity"
..

A couple of routes in Germany have been upgraded to three tracks, one up, one down
What runs on the third track is an interesting philosophical problem, up or down or both? Groups of trains, then change of direction?

Better maybe to upgrade to four tracks


And in the UK some lines were upgraded (sic) to a single track. For example, Exeter to Salisbury. Result: a service that is too infrequent for local services and too slow for long distances. (This appalling service was what persuaded me to buy a car).
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mjr
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Re: HS2

Post by mjr »

Bonefishblues wrote:In other news Chris Packham has launched an action against HS2 along the lines of the recently successful challenge against Heathrow expansion.

Does anyone know if that nice minister Grayling said HS2 complied with the emissions reduction targets or if (as in Heathrow) he claimed they didn't apply?
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Psamathe
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Re: HS2

Post by Psamathe »

(Re-activating an old thread as new post not worthy of yet another HS2 thread)

I was forced to watch BBC Panorama last night (1d Sept 2024) about HS2 (and glad I was/did).

Horrific what HS2 board/company was doing lying about budgets, sacking people who were telling them their estimates wouldn't work. Politicians lying, ignoring reports, etc.

And undoubtedly nobody will be held to account.

I felt worth watching if you have a catch-up service.

Ian
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RickH
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Re: HS2

Post by RickH »

Psamathe wrote: 17 Sep 2024, 11:46am (Re-activating an old thread as new post not worthy of yet another HS2 thread)

I was forced to watch BBC Panorama last night (1d Sept 2024) about HS2 (and glad I was/did).

Horrific what HS2 board/company was doing lying about budgets, sacking people who were telling them their estimates wouldn't work. Politicians lying, ignoring reports, etc.

And undoubtedly nobody will be held to account.

I felt worth watching if you have a catch-up service.

Ian
Gareth Dennis (a railway engineer who seems to talk sense from my encounters with him on YouTube) didn't think much of it when he replied to Richard Coles' post on Twitter saying "Excellent Panorama on the scandal of HS2."
Screenshot_20240919-131553.png
Gareth Dennis wrote:As a railway expert: no, it isn't. Nothing new to say, and very little that's correct."
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Psamathe
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Re: HS2

Post by Psamathe »

RickH wrote: 19 Sep 2024, 1:22pm
Psamathe wrote: 17 Sep 2024, 11:46am (Re-activating an old thread as new post not worthy of yet another HS2 thread)

I was forced to watch BBC Panorama last night (1d Sept 2024) about HS2 (and glad I was/did).

Horrific what HS2 board/company was doing lying about budgets, sacking people who were telling them their estimates wouldn't work. Politicians lying, ignoring reports, etc.

And undoubtedly nobody will be held to account.

I felt worth watching if you have a catch-up service.

Ian
Gareth Dennis (a railway engineer who seems to talk sense from my encounters with him on YouTube) didn't think much of it when he replied to Richard Coles' post on Twitter saying "Excellent Panorama on the scandal of HS2."

Screenshot_20240919-131553.png
Gareth Dennis wrote:As a railway expert: no, it isn't. Nothing new to say, and very little that's correct."
A lot of the program was about budgets and compulsory purchase/compensation of those properties along the route. Is this something a railway engineer would be expert on?

Ian
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Re: HS2

Post by rareposter »

Psamathe wrote: 19 Sep 2024, 1:38pm A lot of the program was about budgets and compulsory purchase/compensation of those properties along the route. Is this something a railway engineer would be expert on?
Gareth Dennis is a railway design engineer and writer, he's VERY experienced. Fairly prominent in rail circles for public engagement, he's a lecturer for several engineering institutions too. Recently got bullied out of his role at Systra by the current Rail Minister Minister Lord Hendy (formerly Chair of Network Rail) after he (GD) stated safety concerns about Euston Station. Hendy pressured Systra (they're an engineering consultancy firm) to sack GD and threatened to withhold contracts from Systra unless they complied. So yes, GD is not afraid of speaking out.

A lot of the "documentary" was already debunked myths, most of it seems to be coming from the right-wing think-tank Policy Exchange, one of the least-transparent think tanks in the country that has never revealed the source(s) of its funding. They did a lot of stuff promoting Brexit which should tell you everything you need to know about them...

Andrew Gilligan (much as he did / has done some great work on cycling) is vehemently anti-HS2, he's written a lot of the stuff that's subsequently been used by Panorama. It's up there as worthy of a complaint to OfCom for bias and inaccuracy.

The main scandal behind HS2 has been Government's complete failure to understand and manage it and instead to keep searching for excuses to hobble it at every opportunity. Every time they changed something or demanded a re-scoping, that added to delays, expense and a general degradation of the final product.
Jdsk
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Re: HS2

Post by Jdsk »

"“Doing nothing is not an option” – Report into Midlands North West rail link released":
https://www.railmagazine.com/news/2024/ ... k-released

Guardian coverage:
"Building HS2 to Euston and Crewe could pay for itself, analysis finds":
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/202 ... ysis-finds

Jonathan
Jdsk
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Re: HS2

Post by Jdsk »

"HS2 likely to reach Euston, signals minister":
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/crm2843glmjo

Jonathan
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