Cycling UK Forum

sirmy wrote:Thirdcrank - the 1998 Road Traffic Act makes it clear that a cycle path can be to the side of a carriage way, a seperate section of path or in the carriage way, a lane segregated by a line, solid for mandatory, requring a TRO to bring it into force, or a broken line which does not reqiure a TRO and is advisory only.

It is an offence to park in a mandatory cycle lane - just try getting somone to enforce it

Depending on the exact wording of the traffic regulation order, driving, with certain exceptions in a mandatory cycle lane is unlawful. On that basis, it might be argued that it's impossible to park without driving. That isn't the same as the specific protection against parking given to cycle tracks. I also think it is wrong to suggest that the expressions 'cycle lane' and 'cycle track' are interchangeable. You have even introduced a third expression "cycle path" which I cannot find mentioned in the s 21 you quote.
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Edit to add. Perhaps another way of illustrating what I am trying to say is to look at the different pieces of legislation involved:

A cycle track is created under the Cycle Tracks Act, 1984. A mandatory cycle lane would be created by a traffic regulation
order, which is in turn authorised under sections 5 or 8 of the Road Traffic Regulation Act. (5= general, 8 = London.)

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1984/38

The Cycle Tracks Act itself was an amenment to the Highways Act, 1980, which was largely to do with the powers and duties of highway authorities in respect of ..... highways, including cycle tracks.

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1980/66/contents
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Further edit: In a continuing attempt to use other sources, rather than just asserting an opinion, I'll offer this from Cycle-friendly infrastructure. Part III section 11 "On-carriageway design" deals with cycle lanes in their various forms. Section 12 "Off-carriageway but within the highway" deals with cycle tracks.

Thirdcrank - why are you getting so worked up? Cycle path is a generic term, to me anyway, and may not be as precise as the legislation but I'm sure most other people understood the meaning
Get out and ride somemore - the simple fact is that there is legislation to govern parking on cyclepaths.tracks/lanes

But as I said try getting anyone to enforce it

Plus - from Cycle Schemes and Legal Procedures Final Report from Cycle England (specifically about conversion of footpaths but still relevant)

"2.15 Prevention of use of cycle tracks by motor vehicles
(Cycle tracks created through use of Town & Country Planning Act)
Procedure – none necessary: the Cycle Tracks Act 1984 s2(1) used
to make this an offence but this was superseded by s21 of the Road
Traffic Act 1988. This offence does not take account of how the cycle
track was created. Creation by the use of Town and Country Planning
legislation is not relevant to this issue anymore than if the same
legislation had been used to create a carriagewaywhich forms part of
the highway. To give an example, once a bypass has been created
through the use of a planning application and all of the other statutory
procedures, there is no need for further orders to ensure that, for
example, the police can enforce the national speed limit or other similar
offences.
In other words, so long as the correct creation procedures have been
properly followed and the necessary signs have been erected to denote
that the highway at that point is a cycle track then no further orders are
necessary for the police to enforce the requirements of the Road Traffic
Act."

End of playtime

sirmy

I don't think I'm getting worked up at all. If I go into detail, it's because I try to support what I'm saying with sources.

It seems to me that the priority for cyclists, as implied in the thread title, is prevention. Enforcement is always going to be a poor second, especially for something like this because if a cycle route is generally discontinuous, it might as well not exist from the POV of those most likely to depend on it.

If it does come down to enforcement, it can only be applied using the appropriate legislation. The legislation dealing with cycle tracks is irrelevant in respect of cycle lanes: a red herring.

In fact, it has occurred to me since last night what may be the underlying problem. The UK system of traffic signs is to some extent seen by the clever people who think it all up as a delicious intellectual exercise. So, for example, the English wording for a 24 hour parking prohibition is "At any time." Ever since a system of yellow lines was introduced to control waiting and loading, mainly enforced by traffic wardens with few other duties, it's been an escalating battle, with ever more streamlined enforcement, heavier penalties including vehicle removal in some cases and now, in London at least, there are red lines along TfL routes, enforced by CCTV monitoring including automated numberplate recognition systems producing and sending fixed penalty notices.

http://www.tfl.gov.uk/roadusers/finesan ... s/941.aspx

OTOH, the prevention of parking in a mandatory cycle lane depends on drivers understanding that a continuous white line a yard and a half from the edge of the carriageway, supplemented by cycle lane signs to differentiate it from the similar "edge of crriageway" marking, means that drivers may not enter it (except for saving life or setting down passengers - or something similar) and ipso facto that they may not stop there. Although many (most?) highway authorities seem to try to protect mandatory cycle lanes with a parking and loading ban (ie yellow lines etc) a moment's thought suggests that that is redundant as it's banning something already implicitly banned. In reality, in urban areas where the only bits of carriageway without yellow lines tend to be designated parking places, mandatory cycles lanes need something a whole lot stronger if they are to be kept clear: something that overcomes ignorance, genuine and feigned. In a variation of the words of the old double yellow line joke, something that means "No parking, at all, at all at all, at all."

I think Thirdcrank is being very helpful in quoting the relevant legislation and trying to explain it! In my profession, I have to know the correct names for the various bits of the road (in terms of the various Acts and Orders), but I realise many people don't - and I would guess that most drivers don't really know the difference between a solid-line cycle lane and a dashed-line cycle lane. Judging from what I usually see from the top deck of the bus, most drivers are happy to drive in either if it suits them.

The official guidance, and common sense, would suggest that putting a cycle lane on a road where on-street is common would be completely pointless unless something was done to prevent the parking. But, as we all know, common sense and cycle facilities don't often go hand-in-hand in this country.

FatBat wrote:.... Judging from what I usually see from the top deck of the bus, .....

Would that be the Clapham bus? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_man_on ... am_omnibus

(That's just to add a lighter touch - and thanks for the kind words. )

It took me about 5 years of steady letter writing, emails and complaining to get my council to enforce a solid line cycle lane in the town centre.

I got all sorts of fob-offs from the council - it is being looked into, there is a mix up about who should enforce it, we lost your emails when our IT system was upgraded, the person dealing with it is on long term sick/has left/is in a meeting/is on a course, we aren't sure which 'directorate' has responsibility for it since we reorganised etc etc.

I got the impression that once the lane had been painted as part of a new one way street the council somehow realised they'd forgotten to get the proper legal enforcement in place at the time. So, to avoid clever lawyers embarrassing them they specifically instructed the private company which employs the wardens not to enforce it, so allowing motorists to break rule 140 of the Highway Code. Then they forgot all about it and didn't like it when I reminded them.

My advice to anyone seeking to get a cycle lane enforced is to assume from the start that the council won't take any notice of you if you sound at all reasonable and conciliatory. Just go in threatening contact with the council's chief executive, your MP, councillors, health and safety,the police, ROSPA etc right from the start. That's what worked for me and I now realise I should have done it a lot sooner.

The lane in question is now nearly always free of parked cars whereas before it was often completely blocked by 3 or 4 of them during the day.

blackbike wrote:... My advice to anyone seeking to get a cycle lane enforced is to assume from the start that the council won't take any notice of you if you sound at all reasonable and conciliatory. Just go in threatening contact with the council's chief executive, your MP, councillors, health and safety,the police, ROSPA etc right from the start. That's what worked for me and I now realise I should have done it a lot sooner.

The lane in question is now nearly always free of parked cars whereas before it was often completely blocked by 3 or 4 of them during the day.

My understanding is that enforcement of the specific offence of driving a motor vehicle in a mandatory cycle lane is a police matter, whereas yellow line enforcement has been transferred from the police to the local authority. I presume the cycle lane you are talking about had some form of additional parking ban ie yellow lines?

thirdcrank wrote:

blackbike wrote:... My advice to anyone seeking to get a cycle lane enforced is to assume from the start that the council won't take any notice of you if you sound at all reasonable and conciliatory. Just go in threatening contact with the council's chief executive, your MP, councillors, health and safety,the police, ROSPA etc right from the start. That's what worked for me and I now realise I should have done it a lot sooner.

The lane in question is now nearly always free of parked cars whereas before it was often completely blocked by 3 or 4 of them during the day.

My understanding is that enforcement of the specific offence of driving a motor vehicle in a mandatory cycle lane is a police matter, whereas yellow line enforcement has been transferred from the police to the local authority. I presume the cycle lane you are talking about had some form of additional parking ban ie yellow lines?

I'm not sure of the legal position. The lane has no yellow lines. The police told me it was a council matter and the council admitted as much but simply declined to do anything about it until pressed.

The police/council responsibility problem is a mess. It seems to be an excuse for nobody to do anything while everybody gets paid.

blackbike wrote:.... The lane has no yellow lines. ....

blackbike

I've found your experience in this really interesting, especially since eventually, a mandatory cycle lane has been protected without yellow lines. As I've made clear, I had thought that although it was theoretically possible, in practice it would never happen, and certainly not on a permanent basis, rather than the occasional. well-publicised 'crackdown'. Thanks for putting me right.

Also, congratulations for having the tenacity to stick with it till you got a result. Like banging your head against a wall, it's a pleasant experience when you can stop.

In Leighton Buzzard we have a cycle contraflow which is marked as an cycle lane with a dashed white line. There are also double yellows. A local electrical retailer's shop who the path goes past always seems to be parked in the cycle lane and often on the pavement as well.

They are allowed to park for lading for up to 20 mins but strangely they seem to be there for hours & hours.

The road is patrolled by parking wardens but they never seem to get a ticket.

Redvee wrote: a PCSO was asserting her authority and asked my Dad to move the car through the open passenger window.

Our local cycling PCSO says that a PCSO doesn't have any authority for Highways matters - he's not even allowed to direct traffic if needed.

admin wrote: ... Our local cycling PCSO says....

I'll restrict myself to saying that AFAIK, there is a list of powers which PCSO's can be given and individual chief officers then decide which will be given locally.
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Correction

According to the PCSO's own website (I've no idea how official it is) there are two lists. The first lists powers common to all PCSO's and the second those that may be delegated by a chief officer.

http://www.pcsos-national.co.uk/page3.html

There are several traffic related powers in there, including a power to direct traffic. I should have thought that would be adequate to be able to tell somebody who was parked to move. It's certainly the power a police officer would use and it's one the courts generally support whenever it's been used properly. I suppose most cyclists would say that telling somebody parked within a cycle lane to move was a proper use of the power, in general terms.

Thirdcrank, it doesn't really matter who has the legal right to enforce the law if the people on the street have been specifically told not to enforce it.

In my case the police on the beat were told by their bosses to have nothing whatsoever to do with parking offences in my town once the council assumed responsibilty for them.The council, for bungling reasons best known to its 'officers', specifically told its wardens not to enforce the solid line cycle lane which they had so recently carefully planned and hired contractors to construct.

I found all this out by chatting to wardens and policemen on the beat, all of whom thought the situation was a shambles.

I think that councils just paint cycle lanes without really caring about their effectiveness or enforcement. There was a frenzy of cycle lane painting about ten years ago which seems to have died away. It's not as if there is any coherent, continuous strategy. Evidence for this attitude in my borough is provided by the fact that 2 road junctions I use have been resurfaced and generally renovated in the last year. The only difference between to old junctions and the new is the lack of the cycle lanes and the ASLs. When I asked the council about this I was told nobody knew anything about it.

blackbike wrote:Thirdcrank, it doesn't really matter who has the legal right to enforce the law if the people on the street have been specifically told not to enforce it. ....

That's absolutely true. OTOH, if we take this back to the thread title, the only relevant people are those with a power to deal with the offenders or, in the circumstances you describe, the people in charge of the people with the enforcement power.

thirdcrank wrote:OTOH, the prevention of parking in a mandatory cycle lane depends on drivers understanding that a continuous white line a yard and a half from the edge of the carriageway, supplemented by cycle lane signs to differentiate it from the similar "edge of crriageway" marking, means that drivers may not enter it (except for saving life or setting down passengers - or something similar) and ipso facto that they may not stop there. Although many (most?) highway authorities seem to try to protect mandatory cycle lanes with a parking and loading ban (ie yellow lines etc) a moment's thought suggests that that is redundant as it's banning something already implicitly banned. In reality, in urban areas where the only bits of carriageway without yellow lines tend to be designated parking places, mandatory cycles lanes need something a whole lot stronger if they are to be kept clear: something that overcomes ignorance, genuine and feigned. In a variation of the words of the old double yellow line joke, something that means "No parking, at all, at all at all, at all."

Should we then be painting double yellow lines outside the cycle lane?