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Re: Cars Parked In Cycle Lanes: How Do We Stop It?
Posted: 7 Jul 2014, 8:29pm
by Mark1978
Me not wearing hi viz or a helmet (although I do both) would cause inconvenience or danger to precisely nobody. Unlike parking in a cycle lane which does present a danger to cyclist using it.
Re: Cars Parked In Cycle Lanes: How Do We Stop It?
Posted: 7 Jul 2014, 8:40pm
by Bicycler
We can argue what the spirit of the law is all day. A zigzag presumably ends where it does for a reason. Had the intention been to prevent stopping over a larger distance then that could have been legislated. Instead they chose just the small area in front of the school. This kind of argument goes nowhere as nobody bothers to note down intentions, leaving only the letter of the law. What are intentions when nobody knows what they are? What use are they when people ignore them (intentionally or otherwise)?
I'm sure your average motorist would say that following the spirit of providing cycle facilities would be for us to use them. Likewise the spirit of the Traffic Signs Regulations and General Directions was that advisory cyclists dismount signs should be heeded and the spirit of the cycling section of the HC was that it's advice should be followed.
Re: Cars Parked In Cycle Lanes: How Do We Stop It?
Posted: 7 Jul 2014, 8:44pm
by 661-Pete
I have a suspicion that "Melodymaker", like
"R Trahearn" in another recent thread, will turn out to be another contributor of the "one-post-then-clear-off" type. He or she hasn't been back since yesterday morning and probably won't now.
The question: do we accept that people have a right to make their point on the forum in this way, however much we may dislike it? I think we do. I hesitate to use the T-word and I don't think it applies to either of these individuals. A 'troll' is someone who
persistently pursues pointless arguments, or engages in abuse, on a forum: neither of these people have done that.
But we - the rest of the forum I mean - should have the right to counter their arguments as robustly as we wish (within forum rules that is).
Agreed?
Re: Cars Parked In Cycle Lanes: How Do We Stop It?
Posted: 7 Jul 2014, 8:51pm
by Bicycler
Mark1978 wrote:Me not wearing hi viz or a helmet (although I do both) would cause inconvenience or danger to precisely nobody. Unlike parking in a cycle lane which does present a danger to cyclist using it.
Maybe if it was done often enough it might encourage the cyclist to use the general traffic lane rather than a overly narrow cycle lane (most are) and thus make them safer
but then of course using the general traffic lane could cause inconvenience to the motorists behind and they'd be guilty of ignoring the HC advice. This is all just too subjective, something like parking in cycle lanes would be better dealt with by legislation. You could not enforce manners even if you got everyone to agree on what they were
Re: Cars Parked In Cycle Lanes: How Do We Stop It?
Posted: 7 Jul 2014, 9:01pm
by Bicycler
661-Pete wrote:The question: do we accept that people have a right to make their point on the forum in this way, however much we may dislike it? I think we do. I hesitate to use the T-word and I don't think it applies to either of these individuals. A 'troll' is someone who persistently pursues pointless arguments, or engages in abuse, on a forum: neither of these people have done that.
But we - the rest of the forum I mean - should have the right to counter their arguments as robustly as we wish (within forum rules that is).
Agreed?
It depends whether they are sincerely held beliefs or whether they are intentionally antagonistic, like a single incident of trolling. As we can't tell a poster's intent from a single post I agree that they should be allowed (subject to the forum rules)
Re: Cars Parked In Cycle Lanes: How Do We Stop It?
Posted: 7 Jul 2014, 9:11pm
by beardy
I can see no reason to try and restrict such comments unless it is an orchestrated attempt to swamp the forum (as happened to the motorbike forum after the silly video was posted of him knocking a cyclist off).
It is probably good for us to hear how others see things, instead of building up an unchallenged Forum-consensus of how we think things are, from our viewpoint only.
I know that most of us have to park cars too but it may be that our diligence in finding suitable locations is rather extreme. It certainly is outside (and inside) of my kids' schools.
Re: Cars Parked In Cycle Lanes: How Do We Stop It?
Posted: 7 Jul 2014, 9:39pm
by mjr
If people can park in it easily, that seems like a bad design, doesn't it? We know that police and councils pass the Buck rather than keep cycleways clear, unless it's completely blatant.
Re: Cars Parked In Cycle Lanes: How Do We Stop It?
Posted: 7 Jul 2014, 10:15pm
by [XAP]Bob
2m wide, with a kerb between that and the main carriageway would be useful, could even have two people with trailers pass (although they'd need to negotiate it, and take care)
Re: Cars Parked In Cycle Lanes: How Do We Stop It?
Posted: 7 Jul 2014, 10:53pm
by gaz
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Re: Cars Parked In Cycle Lanes: How Do We Stop It?
Posted: 8 Jul 2014, 2:08am
by mjr
Why blank the number plate?
But no, there we need gaps in the kerb to allow riders to pull one lane right and pass the illegal parker, plus flaming TNT online so more cyclists stop using them
Re: Cars Parked In Cycle Lanes: How Do We Stop It?
Posted: 8 Jul 2014, 10:12am
by iviehoff
Bicycler wrote:We can argue what the spirit of the law is all day. A zigzag presumably ends where it does for a reason. Had the intention been to prevent stopping over a larger distance then that could have been legislated. Instead they chose just the small area in front of the school. This kind of argument goes nowhere as nobody bothers to note down intentions, leaving only the letter of the law. What are intentions when nobody knows what they are? What use are they when people ignore them (intentionally or otherwise)?
Actually intentions are often quite clear, for example papers which were published during the passage of the legislation, which probably set out just what the aim of a certain clause was. The situation in English law is quite clear, such material has no legal force whatsoever, it is the letter of the law which matters. It doesn't have to be like that, indeed England is relatively unusual in this regard. Many other jurisdictions do take account of the intentions set out in government statements during passage of the legislation, and so forth. Makes a job for lawyers to go and look up what they were, but also makes for more sensible decisions.
But there is a lesson from this. Whenever a British politician says "but we won't enforce the law in that manner" he is lying - under English law. He doesn't enforce the law, the police enforce the law, and they enforce the law as it is written, regardless of what assurances were given at the time. This is sad really. I think the other countries have it right. It would be much better if he was telling the truth when he said that.
Note: "England" is short for England&Wales. I don't know the Scottish/NI situation, they have their own jurisdictions.
Re: Cars Parked In Cycle Lanes: How Do We Stop It?
Posted: 8 Jul 2014, 6:48pm
by gaz
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Re: Cars Parked In Cycle Lanes: How Do We Stop It?
Posted: 8 Jul 2014, 7:52pm
by 661-Pete
gaz wrote:My current dilemma is whether or not to pursue the removal of the boat from the bike racks, given the quality of the racks.
What bike racks? I see only a few butterflies - probably of the species
Infarstructurus rotaflexibus...
Re: Cars Parked In Cycle Lanes: How Do We Stop It?
Posted: 10 Jul 2014, 10:42am
by niggle
MelodyMaker wrote:I've just had a visit from the Police about a similar matter.
I'm a cyclist and a driver so I do appreciate both sides. I found this post because we have recently been having problems with indirect threats (made by a cyclist via the nearby lollipop man) to damage our car. Prior to that, we returned from dropping our youngest at school twice to find spit down the drivers side window which we then had to clear up. We park well away from the island in the middle of the road, and the road concerned is wide. As a cyclist myself, I would consider this acceptable and think the behaviour of this particular cyclist is disgraceful.
The Police who visited us intends to speak to the cyclist concerned. Whilst he has not committed an offence (yet), it is clearly unacceptable behaviour.
The advice that we have been given is that if a cycle lane is a separate track or has a solid line, a driver can not cross the line or park across it. If it is a broken line, you can park on it if unavoidable. So, in our case, when the nearby layby is full, and the narrow road close to the school poses a threat to the children, we can park on the road which has cycle lanes down both sides as long as we do so in a safe manner. Unfortunately for the cyclist, they just have to accept that they will have to pull out to pass the car in this case.
I agree that the cyclist spitting on your car is behaving very badly.
What he should do is post a clip on Youtube of your car parked in the cycle lane, with the vehicler registration number in the video title so that other people can search for it.
So how far away is the nearest place you can park legally without parking in a cycle lane?
Re: Cars Parked In Cycle Lanes: How Do We Stop It?
Posted: 10 Jul 2014, 3:50pm
by grani
Like this one I encountered yesterday?
