Cycling UK Forum

I just renoticed the title of the thread...

Whilst I can sympathise, in that I don't like getting held up any more than the next person, I question the diagnosis.

The cyclists were unlikely to be presenting anywhere near as much danger to anyone as the OP was in their steel and glass cage. I'm not saying that the OP was driving in a particularly dangerous manner, but driving is inherently more dangerous than cycling.

If it had been a learner driver, or a tractor, or a car with a spare/run flat, or pretty much anything else they'd have taken up the same width, at a similar speed. That people choose to drive down mixed use roads is their consent that they share these roads with other users. If they don't want to encounter cyclists then they can drive on their segregated paths (motorways).
The group were unlikely to have been out to hold you up for (3-4 miles, 25mph for a peleton? ~) 8 minutes. They could have achieved that much more easily by simply triggering a few crossings.

Which road was this on? Street view links may help us help you understand their positioning.

I don't see how a group of cyclists is substantially different from the horse and cart I followed (on my bike) down a lane a few weeks ago. A group of cyclists moves a bit faster, so may be slightly harder to pass. Neither is dangerous.

And whether it is frustrating is entirely up to the driver.

flat tyre wrote:Mr Turbo 10, my suggestion for your problem is for you to buy some skin tight lycra and a racing style bike for you and your good wife, leave the car behind and to join the other cyclists, you'll find your Sunday's much less frustrating.

In your dreams, wouldn't be seen dead in skin tight lycra thanks, top down on our MX5 and more considerate cyclist will do just dandy and anyway I use consideration to other road users so I wouldn't fit in.

It's that difficult word "dangerous" again. In this context, I assume the OP means the cyclists placed themselves at increased risk.

But did they? Without knowing exactly what the cyclists did, it's difficult to be sure. As a general rule, "taking the lane" to ensure that a car cannot attempt a close overtake may be safer than cycling in the gutter. It doesn't guarantee safety from a really dangerous driver, of course, as was demonstrated in Italy not long ago.

Turbo10 wrote:

flat tyre wrote:Mr Turbo 10, my suggestion for your problem is for you to buy some skin tight lycra and a racing style bike for you and your good wife, leave the car behind and to join the other cyclists, you'll find your Sunday's much less frustrating.

In your dreams, wouldn't be seen dead in skin tight lycra thanks, top down on our MX5 and more considerate cyclist will do just dandy and anyway I use consideration to other road users so I wouldn't fit in.

Streetview links? -may help us help you understand their positioning...

[quote=Which road was this on? Street view links may help us help you understand their positioning.[/quote]

There are no street views available on Google, it was on a part of a country road that we travelled from Poolye Bridge to St. Bees. Street views are not necessary anyway to show that their "positioning" was dangerous and inconsiderate to other road users.

I do have some sympathy with Turbo - I have been stuck behind a large group of cyclists and it can be frustrating.
As a cyclist I mainly cycle alone or in a small group max size 4. It is no different being stuck behind a 'peloton' than a slow tractor or caravan etc. But IME tractors and other slow vehicles will often pull over every now and again to let the cars pass.

Mind you - there have been times as a cyclist when I have been stuck behind a slow car!

Turbo10 wrote:There are no street views available on Google, it was on a part of a country road that we travelled from Poolye Bridge to St. Bees. Street views are not necessary anyway to show that their "positioning" was dangerous and inconsiderate to other road users.

Of course not, only opinion can show that.

Turbo10 wrote:There are no street views available on Google, it was on a part of a country road that we travelled from Poolye Bridge to St. Bees.

Every public road on every conceivable route on that journey is covered by Google Streetview.

Turbo10 wrote:Street views are not necessary anyway to show that their "positioning" was dangerous and inconsiderate to other road users.

Inconsiderate is one thing. There are plenty of inconsiderate cyclists (as there are plenty of inconsiderate people generally).

I'm genuinely curious as to what about "positioning" you perceive to be dangerous, though.

I can see that swerving unpredictably could be construed as dangerous (though given that bicycles don't travel well over larger potholes or badly-oriented gratings, swerving is something that one should anticipate), but I don't think swerving is "positioning".

I can see that riding on the wrong side of the road is both "dangerous" and falls under "positioning", but I don't think you've accused them of that.

I'm not playing some logical game to box you into a corner of having to concede that the only danger is that the frustrated motorist eventually gets fed up and has a punt at a less-than-ideal overtake. I know full well that it's human nature to do this, and IMO this is something that many less pragmatic cyclists would do well to accept. But I wonder if there's something you observed which you think is inherently dangerous. Then maybe we can explain why a cyclist might do it, or we might have a think our own behaviour. I think without an explanation of the danger you perceive, the criticism ceases to be constructive.

Dear Turbo10,
You do have my sympathy. Honestly, I also am a car driver and I am aware of the frustration caused when there is a gap between my desire and my capability. What I do in these times is turn up the radio, tuned to Classic FM and remind myself that the time lost in the big scheme of things is marginal; an extra few munites added to a journey, well what can you do with that.
But now may I turn it around and ask you a few questions:
I presume that your Sunday journey was a pleasure jaunt, yes? Well these riders were probably doing it for pleasure too, so what's the difference?
Next, why does their mode ot transport provoke such a reaction? You could have encountered a horse, marching band, even a traction engine. Would you have felt the same?
Third. Why do criticising motorists always have to latch onto the wearing of Lycra? If you were doing sub-aqua in cold waters, would you wear a wetsuit?
If you went ski-ing in the alps, would you wear a bright ski suit. Would you take a dip at the local pool in a dark three-piece suit, or go to a funeral wearing bermuda shorts?
No, of course not. You would wear what is appropriate for the activity, and that's what these people were doing.

Fourth, their presence on the road. Any day of the week, drive into any city or town and at some point you will be held up. Sitting stationary staring through the rear view of the car in front and the one in front of that and so on...... Would you go and write to a motoring magazine and complain about the other drivers?
Now here's a little exercise for you. Supposing it was just one cyclist. You may be tempted to just slip past. However, did you give the cyclist enough room? Remember that we are all capable of errors of judgement and if you don't allow enough clearance, or 'ton-up Johnny' comes screaming round that bend at that moment...... well if two cars have a side-swipe, its a job for the insurance company. Side swipe a cyclist and its a job for A&E or possibly the Funeral Directors. What I am saying here is that no risk is acceptable.

Now suppose there is more than one cyclist. If they are in single file, you might be tempted to chance it. And if you get it wrong????? Would'nt it be better for them to adopt twin file where it would not be safe for you to chance it, so that you are discouraged from trying it? Before answering that remember, at stake is the possibility of causing shock/distress to your passenger, a brethaliser, interview by the Police, possibly a night in a cell, the knowledge that someone may never walk again or a family has to say goodbye to a loved one. What will all this do to you? Will you ever have a good nights sleep again? Will the stress from the guilt affect your work, your marriage? There is too much at stake to take risks my friend.
Now supposing those cyclists were single file instead; that would mean that they made a line twice as long. Supposing you started to overtake, then something came the other way, what would you do? Shove someone into the hedge perhaps?
And then suppose they were split into smaller groups, leaving gaps for cars. What do you do when you want to pass the trailing group, but there is already a car occupying the gap in front of them?
I'm not saying this to be horrible, but it is all too easy when in ones car, to become detached from the interaction with ones surroundings. Also, a few moments delay can appear stretched out and longer than it really is. Perhaps in posing your question, you have been presented with answers that never occurred to you. Have a safe journey.

The OP could give us a clue though as to what the numeric designation of the road was and where over its approximate 50 miles, this incident occurred ... so that we know to stay off his personal open-top fantasy road ...

Motorcycles are the way forward, you can overtake anything on a motorcycle...

Open top sports cars are wannabe motorcycles with stabilisers and an extra tonne or so of extra weight to make them manageable for Joe P.

Many many years ago I drove an MG Midget. It was wonderful with the top down, and shared many characteristics with cycles: fresh air, rather slow, punctured easily, couldn't take much luggage, could easily chat with passers-by. Happy days.

I was thinking about these things yesterday on a glorious ride - thankfully without directly "inconveniencing" many cars, but occasionally witnessing the incongruity of large leisure vehicles took me back to my own days of taking to country roads on my Norton Commando - though in my case I never had any need for speed. In latter years I hankered after a Harley Davidson to take the agricultural rhythm to the limit.

At 50, I'm so grateful I left motorcycles behind for the joys of cycling before I reached 30.

Four-wheeled vehicles have always been strictly utilitarian in my world.