Cycling UK Forum

stewartpratt wrote:

Turbo10 wrote:Street views are not necessary anyway to show that their "positioning" was dangerous and inconsiderate to other road users.

Inconsiderate is one thing. There are plenty of inconsiderate cyclists (as there are plenty of inconsiderate people generally).

I'm genuinely curious as to what about "positioning" you perceive to be dangerous, though.

I can see that swerving unpredictably could be construed as dangerous (though given that bicycles don't travel well over larger potholes or badly-oriented gratings, swerving is something that one should anticipate), but I don't think swerving is "positioning".

I can see that riding on the wrong side of the road is both "dangerous" and falls under "positioning", but I don't think you've accused them of that.

I'm not playing some logical game to box you into a corner of having to concede that the only danger is that the frustrated motorist eventually gets fed up and has a punt at a less-than-ideal overtake. I know full well that it's human nature to do this, and IMO this is something that many less pragmatic cyclists would do well to accept. But I wonder if there's something you observed which you think is inherently dangerous. Then maybe we can explain why a cyclist might do it, or we might have a think our own behaviour. I think without an explanation of the danger you perceive, the criticism ceases to be constructive.

"Positioning" was a question that I was asked, I took positioning to mean the way these cyclist positioned themselves across the road. In this instance as I said before when the road was narrow they were 3 abreast, when the road was wider 4 abreast. This type of tactic I consider dangerous and inconsiderate to other road users, they knew we were there waiting to overtake them, most of them at one point or another looked back and could well see MANY cars wanting to proceed faster than themselves, 15 mph on the flat and 5 mph up hill.
I have been a motorcyclist for near on 40 years and to this day when I am in my car if I see a motorcyclist coming towards me at a faster speed I pull well over the the nearside as possible thus giving the MC a much safer opportunity to overtake as and when he thinks it is safe to do so.........THIS IS CALLED CONSIDERATION TO OTHER ROAD USERS !!!!
The wife has just pointed out to me, we did 285 miles on Sunday, in that time we had approx 2 miles of motorway traffic that for some reason dropped us down to about 20 mph and 3 + miles of dangerous and inconsiderate cyclists that dropped us down to 5mph.

This week end was really one of many occasions I have had need to frown on dangerous and inconsiderate cyclists. Some weeks past on a nice Sunday a T junction was virtually blocked by about 10 cyclists, they decided to repair a puncture actually on the junction standing on the give way line blocking any possibility of anybody turning left unless they went on the other side of the road, on my left was a perfectly flat grassed area they could have done the repair, when the car in front of me asked why did they see fit to block the road he was told to F off, nice.

Last autumn on a country road we were travelling down a country road about 25 / 30 mph, in front of us was a Nissan Micra with a woman driver, heading into a slight left hand bent only to be hit by a cyclist, on the corner her OSF wing, he was on our side of the road about 6 or 12 inches over the white line, he bounced off her, hit one of his posy of about 10 that was with him, knocked him off and the both ended up on the floor. He jumped up and tried to blame the woman for hitting him. The other cyclist dismounted and put all there bikes down in the road and thought nothing of the obstruction they caused to the cars that came along over the next 10 mins or so.

My my, it's all happening up North.

Cumbria is now definitely crossed off my list of possible destinations for a future Sunday ride.

(In any case the one time I went there, it quickly became apparent how all those lakes got there.)

- - - in that time we had approx 2 miles of motorway traffic that for some reason dropped us down to about 20 mph and 3 + miles of dangerous and inconsiderate cyclists that dropped us down to 5mph.

So presumably these "fully clad in skin tight* lycra clothes" cyclists, all on racing style bikes, were struggling up a pretty steep hill and it took between 36 and 48 minutes to pass them?


* "and from what I could see all male's" - ooh err missus

Turbo10 wrote:The wife has just pointed out to me, we did 285 miles on Sunday, in that time we had approx 2 miles of motorway traffic that for some reason dropped us down to about 20 mph and 3 + miles of dangerous and inconsiderate cyclists that dropped us down to 5mph.

5mph? Really? The only time I've ever seen a cyclist doing 5mph it was an 80 year old woman with a wicker shopping basket.
I'm not even sure I can balance a bike at 5mph...

I think this statement sums up the average car driver these days. 285 miles and just 7 miles of hold ups. That's pretty good going by anyones standard and yet still they're annoyed enough to find time to hunt down a suitable posting place and post their 'irate of Cumbria' drivel.

I'd be willing to put money on it that most of the OP is at best a mild exaggeration...

I wonder if the OP posts on car sites about inconsiderate motorists whenever one does something he doesn't like? They after all are in an easy majority...

Turbo10 wrote:when the road was narrow they were 3 abreast, when the road was wider 4 abreast. This type of tactic I consider dangerous and inconsiderate to other road users

Again, inconsiderate I agree with, but what is dangerous?

Turbo10 wrote:THIS IS CALLED CONSIDERATION TO OTHER ROAD USERS !!!!

Yes, no need to shout, I think we agree on the consideration point, no?

Turbo10 wrote:The wife has just pointed out to me, we did 285 miles on Sunday, in that time we had approx 2 miles of motorway traffic that for some reason dropped us down to about 20 mph and 3 + miles of dangerous and inconsiderate cyclists that dropped us down to 5mph.

The odd thing here is that statistically speaking I would imagine that a motorwary reducing to 20mph has a better chance of resulting in an accident than slow-moving traffic on a rural road. Again, inconsiderate I agree with, but what is dangerous?

Turbo10 wrote:Some weeks past on a nice Sunday a T junction was virtually blocked by about 10 cyclists, they decided to repair a puncture actually on the junction standing on the give way line blocking any possibility of anybody turning left unless they went on the other side of the road, on my left was a perfectly flat grassed area they could have done the repair

Hm. Someone did that once on a group ride I went on. I didn't ride with them again.

There are a few pain-in-the-arse people around. I see some on bikes. I see a lot in cars, but then I see more people in cars generally. Oddly enough I tend to find they average out to just being pain-in-the-arse people. Best not to generalise too much.

This appears to have been a concern of the OP for some time :-

I have just done a Google search to find any info on whether when cyclists don a lycra cycling suit it entitles them to have unobstructed use of three quarters of the highway. It has to be the lycra that makes them think this because I have noticed more than once that the unclad lycra cyclist, the guy using his bike to get to or from work with his work bag over his shoulder, or the couple with their children having a fun day out use the highway as I was taught at school, that you are entitled to use up to approx 1mt from the kerb and that if you wobble into the path of a car, you’re going to get hurt, simple !!!

http://www.mx5northwest.co.uk/forum/vie ... ?f=5&t=290

Best to take control of the lane if a following driver won't allow wobble room ...

Turbo10 wrote:It is so dangerous for the cyclist, the vehicles attempting to overtake and oncoming vehicles.

Turbo10 wrote:Street views are not necessary anyway to show that their "positioning" was dangerous and inconsiderate to other road users.

you've made the same outrageous statment again, so i'll ask the same question again

hubgearfreak wrote:the only way i can see this being dangerous is if someone tries to overtake when it isn't safe to do so. please could you enlighten us as to why you think it's dangerous?

the highway as I was taught at school, that you are entitled to use up to approx 1mt from the kerb and that if you wobble into the path of a car, you’re going to get hurt, simple !!!

Not sure which edition of the Highway Code your school was teaching, but neither of those things has ever been in any version I've seen.

Maybe we could have a look at the up-to-date Code...

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/TravelAndTr ... /DG_069837

...nope. Still can't see them. Maybe you can provide the paragraph number from the code, or perhaps someone else can provide a link to a more car-friendly version?

In the meantime, I notice that a few little pointers from the version I was taught during my schooldays have managed to stay in. Things like...

"212: When passing motorcyclists and cyclists, give them plenty of room (see Rules 162-167)."

"213: Motorcyclists and cyclists may suddenly need to avoid uneven road surfaces and obstacles such as drain covers or oily, wet or icy patches on the road. Give them plenty of room and pay particular attention to any sudden change of direction they may have to make."

"163: ... give motorcyclists, cyclists and horse riders at least as much room as you would when overtaking a car (see Rules 211-215)"

Hmmm interesting stuff.

So was your journey so urgent on a sunday afternoon that slowing to 20mph on a motorway or 5 mph on a country road was so inconveniencing.

A few years ago I regularly had to be at work (acute nhs service so my journey was rather essential) for 16.30 on a Sunday afternoon and needed to travel, by car, down a single carriageway road. I was frequently held up by 'sunday drivers' often in their open top cars, all the time in world attitude, but learnt my lesson and gave myself extra time on a sunday to complete the journey.

Chill and enjoy your time out and you may not turn up at my place of work or worse put some lycra clad cyclists at the mercy of the nhs.

yes the cyclists' mending a puncture at the junction were bl***y stupid imho, but do you always consider if you might be blocking someone's view or progress when you stop at a junction. Have you really never stopped to check your route, talk to a passing mate while at a junction.
Let's be honest we have probably all done something in the past that has been foolish, inconsiderte or both.

When you are ranting about cyclists holding you up do you ever consider how other cars are holding you up when you travel to work daily, they certainly hold me up; I average over 14mph on journey 'tween Horwich and Preston boundary, as soon as i cross the boundary into the built Preston area my av speed drops to 12-13mph as I am constantly held up by inconsiderate drivers who block my route, slow my progress and generally prevent me from being able to overtake them.

And please remember we are not all other cyclists, just as you are not all other incompetent/inconsiderate motorists that we encounter almost daily.

As a footnote; yesterday my son and I (single file) were just cresting a hill before the descent to Ilam, a cyclist (solo so single file) was cresting the hill from the opp direction and the road was extremely narrow. The fact that 2 cyclists were approaching did not deter the impatiant motorist from overtaking the other cyclist. The width of the road barely supported the combined width of 2 cyclists and overtaking car. They were certainly not overtaking in a safe considerate manner, perhaps you could explain why the cyclists would be considered dangerous in such a circumstance? I was pushed well over to the wall at the side of the road!

Just for the sake of balance, I might add that on Saturday I was at a cycle event and observed a rider go through a red light, perhaps the OP can rest assured that I was extremely vexed by this and pulled the rider up about it and was all for reporting their behaviour to organising committees.
Believe me I have been at other events where infringements of local rules for the event or traffic infringements have been dealt with fairly harshly we do take how we are perceived by other road users extremely seriously.

An significant detail has been left out by the OP. They were on an MX5 owners' club run, the object of which seems to be to drive rather quickly (apparently to the chagrin of other potential members as shown by the threads below)

http://www.mx5northwest.co.uk/forum/vie ... ?f=3&t=277
http://www.mx5northwest.co.uk/forum/vie ... &view=next

(EDIT: 2nd link corrected - was duplicate)

So, Dave and Pauline, let me make sure I have this straight.

1. Your hobby is driving at breakneck speed in your sports car along single-track lanes through some of Britain's most tranquil and beuatiful countryside, hugely popular with walkers, horse riders, and cyclists seeking to enjoy fresh air and exercise in the peaceful surroundings.

2. A group of cyclists, resentful of the high-revving attempts of your group to overtake along a narrow road, continue to ride two abreast as the highway code approves of them doing. This delays your progress and so they are 'INCONSIDERATE'.

Like I say, just making sure I have the facts.

Sometimes I wish groups of cyclists would make more of an effort to allow cars past. Personally I slow and pull in whenever I can, and wave cars past when I can see clear ahead, out of courtesy and because it is unpleasant to have cars revving and waiting behind. For you, with the attitude, and ignorance of the highway code you've shown, I would make an exception.

Graham

Ah hah! so 12 cars (or more if possible) driving in convoy around Lancashire single carriageway roads, stopping to re-group does not constitute being inconsiderate to all other road user groups inc; horses / riders, walkers, children playing out, cyclists, farmers other motorists (people who are actually working/going to work).
Glad we have all the facts
Thank you Malaconotus.

eileithyia wrote:Ah hah! so 12 cars (or more if possible) driving in convoy around Lancashire single carriageway roads, stopping to re-group does not constitute being inconsiderate to all other road user groups

not in my book, no.

If what you say is true, then as a keen cyclist and keen motorist, then I'd say they are being plain selfish not to move over every so often. Slow traffic should allow faster traffic to overtake at safe points, and the faster traffic should be patient enough to wait. Tha faster traffic needs to reconsie the limitations of the slow traffic, and their actions may not always make sense from the motorist's point of view. However, as a cyclist it is very frustrating when you're trying to enjoy a Sunday afternoon cycle and motorists who could use A roads insist on using the back roads.

Yesterday I witnessed a Vovle estate overtaking a cyclist only with only about 1 foot clearance at 60mph. Yet this was an empty dual carriageway! The motorist could easily have used the outside lane to overtake as this is what it is designed for. Unfortunately roads are full of inconsiderate people, cyclists and motorists. However, in any accident situation the cyclist will always come off worse.

Unfortunately on this forum you will get a biased view rather than an objective one - IMHO!