Cycling UK Forum

The wobbling thing when setting off was usually the rear gunner trying to balance the bike at odds with the pilot,

It may have helped that Mrs MWS had experience as a pillion passenger on her Dad's motorcycle as a girl

She said she would give it another try. YIPPEEE!

Note to webmaster, can we have a new 'emicom' or whatever you call it, that approximates to that cartoon picture of Snoopy kicking his feet up for joy?

Oh Lordy!!!
I've got all this to come...

Had a pleasant surprise last night though. Didn't try to ride - no room in back garden! - but got the wife to mount up and dismount a few times. I found it much less demanding, physically, to keep the bike balanced during the process, than I had expected. We might be able to cope with this

DaveP wrote:Oh Lordy!!!
I've got all this to come...

Had a pleasant surprise last night though. Didn't try to ride - no room in back garden! - but got the wife to mount up and dismount a few times. I found it much less demanding, physically, to keep the bike balanced during the process, than I had expected. We might be able to cope with this

A good first step, glad it went well. It is how we first started. The next step is for the stoker to rotate the pedals to the correct position make sure you have your legs well spread to avoid bashed shins, and then go for it. We were on a slight down hill the first time and we simply pushed off, I mounted the saddle and then did another pedal, rolled a bit and then stopped. I think the downhill helped a bit. When we stopped the stoker stayed mounted with feet on pedals and I had to balance the bike. Only when I had fully balanced the tandem did the stoker try and dismount. We did this routine a few times until we were both happy starting and stopping; then we attempted some continuous pedalling and some steering.

Pretty much what I had in mind

Ok, the state of play so far is that Mrs D-to-be has said that I must go ahead and buy one. So I have been looking around on ebay and this generates various questions. Thanks also to Gaz for his insight, with whome I have exchanged PM's. I think these questions should be spread wider, so here goes:

1) Using ebay.
Now only a fool would buy something without seeing it, but when a prospective purchase is some distance away, that presents certain difficulties. It's not really realistic to travel across the UK just to view something, then do the journey again to pick it up. Yes you could ask more questions and ask for more pictures, but there is no substitute for seeing it with the Mk1 eyeball. Yet ebay is not auto trader, i.e. you go to see a car, haggle over the price and take it away if you can agree a price. So what I am trying to say is, if I see a bike I like on ebay, can I arrange to see it and buy it there and then if I like it?

2) Small v large wheels.
What I am seriously coveting is the Helios Auster, from Circe Cycles. It has small wheels and I know that it will fit inside my car. However I also like the look of some Dawes Galaxy tandems on ebay. I have taken small wheeled bikes onto the test track at the Bike show, but that's not the same as on the road. So how do small wheels behave in terms of handling, stability, comfort and speed? Is a small-wheeler a 'serious' bike?

3) If large wheels, does it matter if its 700cm or 26inch?

4) roof rack carriers.


Here's my car, with one of my bikes on top. As you can see, it's a short car, a hatchback. The roof bars are 70cm apart.
Now if I put a tandem carrier on top, it will have to be pushed forward so as not to foul the tailgate. Will this cause a problem with unequal loading on the roof bars? I have carried 2 bikes on top, so total loading should not be a problem.

5) I have measured the inside space. By putting my bike as far forwarde as possible and measuring remaining space, I have made the available length to be 192cm. With wheels removed, is this enough for a tandem?

That's all for now. Thanks
Alan

Alan
I've only just noticed this thread.I've only one thing to add to all the good advice given,to stop wobbling when starting ask the stoker to put her hands on you're back when starting off,it tends to be an inexperienced stoker trying to steer that causes much of the wobble.

Alan D wrote: 1) Using ebay.
Now only a fool would buy something without seeing it, but when a prospective purchase is some distance away, that presents certain difficulties. It's not really realistic to travel across the UK just to view something, then do the journey again to pick it up. Yes you could ask more questions and ask for more pictures, but there is no substitute for seeing it with the Mk1 eyeball. Yet ebay is not auto trader, i.e. you go to see a car, haggle over the price and take it away if you can agree a price. So what I am trying to say is, if I see a bike I like on ebay, can I arrange to see it and buy it there and then if I like it?

Be careful on Ebay,ask lots of pertinent questions,check the sellers feedback which shouldn't be less than 99.7% to be good.Don't bid until you're absolutely sure and then only in the last minute.
Don't buy an old tandem,they're generally heavy and or noodley,and also short in the stoker dept which is OK if the stoker is short but if she's over 5' 6" she may feel a bit claustraphobic,they also have fairly limited gearing and screw on freewheels.If you go for a Galaxy twin try and get a late model steel one or the more recent Alu.It also helps if you buy a size smaller than you would ride solo but watchout for toe overlap which when inexperienced can be a problem.

2) Small v large wheels.
What I am seriously coveting is the Helios Auster, from Circe Cycles. It has small wheels and I know that it will fit inside my car. However I also like the look of some Dawes Galaxy tandems on ebay. I have taken small wheeled bikes onto the test track at the Bike show, but that's not the same as on the road. So how do small wheels behave in terms of handling, stability, comfort and speed? Is a small-wheeler a 'serious' bike?

3) If large wheels, does it matter if its 700cm or 26inch?

Can't help on this one we've never ridden a small wheel tandem but we used to own a 26in wheel one and its 700c's for us everytime.

4) roof rack carriers.

Pennine,they're the best and do come up on Ebay fairly regular usually for about £60 or less.

Here's my car, with one of my bikes on top. As you can see, it's a short car, a hatchback. The roof bars are 70cm apart.
Now if I put a tandem carrier on top, it will have to be pushed forward so as not to foul the tailgate. Will this cause a problem with unequal loading on the roof bars? I have carried 2 bikes on top, so total loading should not be a problem.

Pennine racks are available with both wheels fitted or front wheel out which,if the bike is facing forward puts most of the weight rearward,

5) I have measured the inside space. By putting my bike as far forwarde as possible and measuring remaining space, I have made the available length to be 192cm. With wheels removed, is this enough for a tandem?

I don't think a tandem will fit in you car,you need 2.1m

Alan D:
Well done. If she'll have another go at it, I expect you can make it work

Try the Tandem Club site, as well as here http://www.tandem-club.org.uk/nf2002/index.htm
They don't have much on the 'for sale' board at the moment, but keep your eyes on it. Some nice, used tandems come up for sale there. They also have advice about all sorts of things tandem-related.

About carrying one... I wasn't certain I'd figure out a way to transport mine when I bought it, so I hired a Mondeo estate just to bring it home. The tandem fit in the back of that with the front wheel taken off. I have since put the tandem on the roof of my Fiat Punto, but I don't think I'd fit it on with any standard cyle mountings. I just strapped it down (with bungee cords & stuff) There are tandem fittings for roof racks; I think you'd have to do some research to determine if they could be used with or adapted to your car.

I would be leary of buying a tandem on ebay unless it was a make/build spec that I was familiar with or had tried somewhere else, first. If, for example, I decided that the time had come to get the next size up for my (growing) stoker, I'd be perfectly happy to buy a Thorn based upon spec. But as that's the only tandem we've ever ridden, I wouldn't buy any other tandem without first trying it.

I don't have have any experience with the Helios Auster, but without trying it, I would be reluctant to buy a small-wheeled tandem. My reasoning is that smaller wheels tend to be a little less stable on a bicycle (at least that's true for all of the small-wheeled bikes I've ever ridden), though it's possible to get used to it. A tandem is not as stable as a standard bike just because there are two people on it. If you put the two together, I think that it would be that much harder to manage/get used to. Not an unsurpassable problem, but perhaps not ideal for a first tandem purchase. If you can try it first, though, feel free to prove me wrong.

I don't think 700 vs 26" makes any difference. We've got 26" wheels on Voyager. The only thing I worry about is remembering to swap the inner tubes in my tool bag. The punK-tour fairy is certain to visit the first time I forget....

Anyway, best of luck!

edit: Rheon2 posted while I was composing...

Thanks for that input Rheon & Vorpal.

Discovering that Dawes are cheaper than I thought, I am now inclined to buy new; and as an added incentive, there is a local dealer, so I could ride it home
So I am now looking at the Galaxy Twin and the Double Edge from the Dawes 2011 catalogue. The former does appear to have the higher spec and I like the idea of having a drop handlebar, and an additional hub brake. But looking at the Shimano website to identify the parts, it appears that the Galaxy Twin uses bar end shifters (SL-BS77 27 speed). I have read that these are the lesser favoured option due to extra cable resistance and the possibility of goring the pilot in the thigh Can anyone comment on these points?

Also, I would like to know if it would be technically possible to replace these levers and the brake levers (Shimano BR-R550 cantilevers/ BL-R400) with dual control levers? Would this be advisable? I shall in any case ask the shop when I ring them up, but there is always the possibility of getting someone that does not know.

I see that the frame is alloy with steel forks. I am inclined to think that a frame really should be steel. Can anyone comment on the use of alloy?

Thanks, Alan

I had a sudden brainwave, I sent my question off to the Shimano service centre. I specified the given parts and asked if they could be replaced? Although it did occur to me that with the trouble I am having with my left hand, it may be better if I leave the controls on the left as they are and only swap those on the right.

I haven't tried an alloy tandem so I can't comment on how it feels. However, I will provide some perspective and information. Do with it as you like

I don't subscribe to the notion that only a steel-framed bike can provide all day comfort, as all of my bikes except the tandem have alloy frames, however, it might make more difference for a tandem than a standard bike.

I think that a steel frame for a tandem probably makes more comfort difference to the stoker (who has less opportunity for shifts in riding position)

My clubmates who have ridden both alloy- and steel-framed tandems prefer the steel. When I was tandem shopping, they suggested it would be better to buy a used steel-framed tandem than a new alloy-framed one.

I would like to have an additional brake, and am considering adding one. I am very cautious on downhills, pulling a trailer, and am not completely convinced that we can stop as quickly as I'd like should the need arise. I'd say an additional brake, if you can afford it is worthwhile. (it seems to me that there was a thread not so long ago with discussion on the various approaches to brakes, and included some tandem brakes, but I don't have time to look right now).

Regarding the barend changers,for around £50 could get a pair of these:- http://www.kellybike.com/2nd_xtra_takeoff.html and still use the bar ends levers.

I wouldn't worry unduly about an Alu frame either.
I would do however is have the wheels retensioned as they're more than likely machine built and would benefit from a skilled wheelbuilder tweaking them.

Can't help with any personal anecdotes re: ally vs steel as I've only ridden steel tandems. HOWEVER, what are you planning to do? Do you see all day mega marathons on your horizon or short day jaunts or summat in between? It may be difficult to anwer just now but you'll have an idea just how far you can push your stoker already. I'd be wary of overthinking the material question. I'm sure either a steel or ally Dawes would be fine so long as it fits and you could always add a suspension seat post if your lady doesn't appreciate the high frequency buzz associated with ally

As for bar ends... I have bikes with brifters and bikes with bar ends. I don't have a preference for either. When I'm riding brifters, I reach for the bar ends and vice versa.... If you foresee multi day touring perhaps in far flung lands in your future, go for bar ends as they are a bit less complicated/less to go wrong (same point applies to the choice of steel over ally if you plan some expedition touring to the land of the fuzzy wuzzies...). As for changing, they both do it very well.... I've not been speared yet in 50k miles of touring but I have been shouted at by my stoker if that helps

I'd have a think about braking through. I'm not familar with the spec of either bike but there is definitely a step up in braking power from canti to vee. I think you mentioned cantis above. If I had the choice, I'd swap cantis for vees and go for the bike with a drag brake. You can't (usually) be overbraked on a tandem especially if it's fully loaded and getting away from you downhill at 50mph... If you choose to 'upgrade' to vees, you'll need to go for different levers or use travel agents with brifters. Tektro/Cane Creek and Dia Compe do drop levers for vees. I have both, both are good with the Tektro/Cane's perhaps a touch better quality.

If you want more specific info, PM me to avoid boring everyone else into oblivion.

Thanks for the input everyone. Well it is going to be the Dawes Super Galaxy and I might be in the market for a set of second-hand Shimano Tiagra levers soon.
My next question takes me into a different subject area, so I am starting a new thread for it.