Disc brakes for a 700c tourer?

[willem jongman]

The question was about touring bikes. No doubt discs are far superior on mtb's in the mud, but the question is how relevant that is. I have Magura HS 66 hydraulic rim brakes on my very expensive loaded tourer, and I think they are just fine. The problem with discs is that they can indeed overheat fatally, with sudden brake fade, but most importantly, they are vulnerable to knocks etc. The discs are thin and can easily bend. Just imagine what happens on a plane... O yes, and the problems with drop bar levers have not really been solved either. To be honest, I think even Deore V brakes are fine for a tourer. They can decelerate far more than you and the tyres can handle.
Willem

[glueman]

Simplicity is paramount on a long distance tourer, which is why I prefer DT levers, cantis or Vs, conventional BB fittings, etc. I can still see the point in discs for a hard-ridden commuter, where rim brake efficiency in the wet is impaired. City commutes resemble a continuous series of emergency braking manoeuvres - where there's brake cooling time but absolute stopping power is needed discs make sense.

[Si]

The question was about touring bikes. No doubt discs are far superior on mtb's in the mud, but the question is how relevant that is. I have Magura HS 66 hydraulic rim brakes on my very expensive loaded tourer, and I think they are just fine. The problem with discs is that they can indeed overheat fatally, with sudden brake fade, but most importantly, they are vulnerable to knocks etc. The discs are thin and can easily bend. Just imagine what happens on a plane... O yes, and the problems with drop bar levers have not really been solved either. To be honest, I think even Deore V brakes are fine for a tourer. They can decelerate far more than you and the tyres can handle.
Willem

While I would not bother with discs on a tourer (happy with my Vs) I think that you are over egging the cons a bit. Over heating on modern discs isn't as bad as some tend to think - you could well find that the circumstances that make one over heat would have blown the tyre of your rim braked wheel some time before. Sure, if you are going to ride down a mountain dragging your brakes all the way then they are going to overheat - but that is just bad riding rather than a bad brake. The new tandem capable disc brakes seem fine for touring and the loads that go with it.

As for vulnerable to knocks .... If they were as bad as you make out then they'd be useless for MTBing with the constant stream of crashes that comes with it. I've been a disc user for almost ten years and haven't managed to damage one. Although my Mag rim brakes did seem to eat rims somewhat (on the few occasions that they stayed set up properly).

Drop bar levers? There are mech discs that work fine with them.

No, the reasons that I would discount discs for touring are: expense when I've already got some brakes that work, my racks and mud guards don't fit with discs, choice of frame is limited, harder to get spares in the middle of nowhere (although as I rarely tour abroad this isn't a biggy for me)

[workhard]

No, the reasons that I would discount discs for touring are: expense when I've already got some brakes that work, my racks and mud guards don't fit with discs, choice of frame is limited, harder to get spares in the middle of nowhere (although as I rarely tour abroad this isn't a biggy for me)

The reason the average tourist doesn't like discs is nearly always summed up in one word 'conservatism'. Same reason they don't like Ali frames. They then present series of 'bogeyman' style rationalisations to carry the day. Refreshing to see a non disc brake user dismantle these one by one and present a much sounder, imo, case against them. Well done Si.

Retrofiting discs to an existing bike that wasn't designed to take them is a case surely of more money than sense. However if you buy a bike built from the ground up with discs in mind, like say an EBC Revolution country Explorer like my own, you will have no problem with racks or mudguards. I carry a paid of spare pads; even those these are available in every bike shop I've gone into that sells MTB's; as cable operated discs the rest of the setup is identical to a canti or V braked bike. Any accident sufficient to damage the callipers and render them unusable will have caused such catastrophic damage that I doubt sorting the brakes would be a high priority.

If you like stopping, and stopping consistently regardless of weather and road conditions, if you carry a load, even if that load is flesh and blood and blubber, discs are the present and the future.

[djnotts]

Nicely and neatly put, workhard!

[willem jongman]

Not sure why my loaded tourer classifies as an example of conservatism: 26 inch wheeled fillet brazed steel custom drop bar tourer with Rohloff and Son hubs, and Magura HS 66 hydraulic rim brakes. I like springy steel forks with cast crowns, and they are hard to combine with discs. I would not have discs on a racing bike either. But on an mtb, sure, by all means, and probably/perhaps also on an off road touer with front suspension.
Willem

[workhard]

Not sure why my loaded tourer classifies as an example of conservatism: 26 inch wheeled fillet brazed steel custom drop bar tourer with Rohloff and Son hubs, and Magura HS 66 hydraulic rim brakes. I like springy steel forks with cast crowns, and they are hard to combine with discs. I would not have discs on a racing bike either. But on an mtb, sure, by all means, and probably/perhaps also on an off road touer with front suspension.
Willem

only pulling your leg Willem conservatism isn't necessarily a bad thing. Let's say your lovely sounding bike has some conservative features; "fillet brazed steel" "springy steel forks with cast crowns" and "drop bar" . Magura's are the best rim brake there is though imnsho

but then all four of my MTB's are retro's - steel framed and have rim brakes (until I buy a new one)

[willem jongman]

Thanks. Yes I have tried to combine the best from the past (classic UK style loaded touring bike construction and Velocio's French balloon tyre technology from the twenties and thirties) with the best of modern German technology, some superbly finished Japanese Nitto parts, a Brooks Conquest, and make all that work in modern conditions where you have to avoid the main roads much more than in the past. The only thing still missing is Grandbois style tyres in the etrto 559 mtb form factor, to enjoy the bike more when it is (nearly) unloaded. With light loads I now use Pasela's, and they are fine, but a Grandbois in this size would make my day.
Willem

[workhard]

Thanks. Yes I have tried to combine the best from the past (classic UK style loaded touring bike construction and Velocio's French balloon tyre technology from the twenties and thirties) with the best of modern German technology, some superbly finished Japanese Nitto parts, a Brooks Conquest, and make all that work in modern conditions where you have to avoid the main roads much more than in the past. The only thing still missing is Grandbois style tyres in the etrto 559 mtb form factor, to enjoy the bike more when it is (nearly) unloaded. With light loads I now use Pasela's, and they are fine, but a Grandbois in this size would make my day.
Willem

Let me upgrade my description from 'lovely sounding bike' to 'gorgeous sounding bike'. Can we have some pictures please?

Unlike your excellent mix and match built to order route I went for the totally off the shelf bike and then changed the contact points as between work home other hobbies and keeping several retro MTB's running I have little time to fiddle with what is basically my day to day transport. My tourer has inspired me to build up a drop barred a la John Tomac full stiffy retro MTB from an old frame I've got in the shed.

[squeaker]

My new bike is going to be disc up front, rim at the back - I didn't think it was worth having anything more than the most basic back brake (that's already enough to lock the wheel if I squeeze it too!).
It is difficult because it requires a disc fork. But from the first moment I tried a disc brake, I knew that was the future wherever I could fit one!

And they work even better on 406 wheels

[pq]

I'm on the fence on this one. My mountain bikes all have hydraulic discs and I wouldn't buy one without.

Both my tourers have rim brakes, and while that's partly because neither has fittings for discs, buying new I still wouldn't use discs because:

1. The brakes I have are powerful enough for road use - I don't need the extra power I'd get from discs. In any case if you can already lock the back wheel and tip yourself over the bars, extra braking power doesn't achieve anything.
2. One of my tourers is forever being chucked about on the roofs of buses and in aircraft holds when I'm touring in foreign parts. Disc rotors are prone to getting bent, so I'd have to take them off every time I did this.
3. My tourers are both very comfy with a bit of flex in the frame and forks. Beefing them up for discs would lose this.
4. I used to make the "spare parts" argument, but a guy I know uses cable discs on his tourer and carries a single V brake in his tool kit, which he can fit if the disc dies - seems a very workable solution to me.
5. For some reason I've never found rim wear a big problem on my tourers despite riding in mountains/rain/on dirt roads regularly.
6. I've suffered recurrent problems with disc brakes dragging. It's a price worth paying off road, but on road I don't think it is.

I don't think statements saying one is better and the way forward are helpful. Each system has pros and cons - and it's up to you to decide where your priorities lie.