Cycling UK Forum

Brings back memories. We started beside a wall which seemed to be handy.Steadied us for the first couple of yards.

Dave P ad Alan D, well done!

pyruse: I'd say it's more of a confidence and ability thing. I wouldn't even say that the person with more upper body strength should steer. In fact, once upon a time, tandems were often t'other way round. The shorter person in front might have aerodynamic advantages, as well. It doesn't really matter, and I imagine there are a few frames around with a smaller pilot's section.

One advantage of a tandem is that stokers can be unable to ride a bicycle independently (blind or partially sighted, with balance problems, children, etc.), but still able to ride a tandem. In my case, my stoker is only four years old. I can imagine she might be the pilot some day, but she's not quite ready, yet

Alan D wrote: eventually the 'ladies' saddle was borrowed off M'lady's own bike

+1 - But now duplicated!

Alan D wrote: the rear pedals (spd on one side)

Sounds exotic - was it really supplied with odd pedals?

And you didnt tell us the important thing - What was the verdict from the Quarter Deck?

Have a good time tomorrow!

pyruse wrote:Would it not make much more sense for the shorter of the pair to be at the front, then both can see ahead?

I sit at the front because my wife hasnt yet developed the confidence to ride in traffic. I dont imagine that this sort of consideration is either unique or universal. Loss of view was indeed one of her initial objections to the idea but as I pointed out, and she has already confirmed for herself, she is much more free to view the passing scenery than she ever was on her own bike.
Size is a factor as well. Most conventional tandem frames are built for same size or front taller crews, and you wouldnt want to be sitting behind a pilot who cant actually straddle the bike.
I imagine the reason for this is historical - big strong chaps taking delicate young ladies for healthy trips in the countryside, frames built to suit, norms established.
We have moved on, of course, he said hastily, realising that he doesnt know where he left the tin hat....
There are lots of alternative designs for different seating arrangements, but the cost is, typically ,eyewatering.

DaveP wrote:

Alan D wrote: the rear pedals (spd on one side)

Sounds exotic - was it really supplied with odd pedals?

I had to double-take on that as well, but then I realised it meant SPD on one side of the pedal, not on one side of the bike!

MuirSR wrote:

DaveP wrote:

Alan D wrote: the rear pedals (spd on one side)

Sounds exotic - was it really supplied with odd pedals?

I had to double-take on that as well, but then I realised it meant SPD on one side of the pedal, not on one side of the bike!

Senior moment - Senior Moment

Sunday's ride got a bit 'stressy'. However, nobody got strangled and we are both willing to stick with it.
Yes, each pedal is SPD on one side, and as my stoker wears trainers and is not going down the cycle-shoe path, she was having severe issues with them as they kept going wrong way up. Hence I will be replacing her's. I will also need to adjust the positioning of the rear pannier rack, because her heels are catching the bags.

From a technique point of view, a difference in cadence will have to be addressed somehow. My stoker is of the view that you get into the highest gear possible and push hard, hence her cadence is about 30 - 45rpm, comprising of a few strokes - coast - a few more strokes. There is also a fear of speed and I would say normal speed is a tad more than my brisk walking stride. There is a risk of stalling uphill and brakes are applied downhill, last year a following motorist shouted at us to "get a move on". My cadence of about 100rpm, produced peals of protest. Any suggestion as to how I introduce a normal riding technique?

On a tandem, as it seems you've begun to discover, you need to be in the correct gear before you start up a hill. And you've got to keep going. The minimum speed on a tandem is higher than on a solo bike (as you seem to have found out by stalling ) At other times, the cadence is probably less important; you can probably find a compromise. But going up a hill, it's better to be in too low a gear than too high because you can't down shift part way up. Learning the best gearing for hills (and putting it in the correct gear before I got there) was the hardest part of learning to ride a tandem for me.

I think most people have to keep a more steady cadence on a tandem than they would normally, and it takes some getting used to (explain that to her ). It might be easier, if you start at a slower speed & cadence and just pootle around. A speed at or only a little above Mrs-D-to-be's normal speed will probably make it easier for both of you to learn this tandem thing (even if it is frustratingly slow for you) and you can work your way up to faster speeds later.

You may also find it useful to get some toeclips or half toeclips for the stoker's pedals. One of the reasons tandems make it easier for a strong cyclist and a weak cyclist to cycle together, is that the strong cyclist can do more work. With SPDs or toeclips, the pilot can literally pull the stoker's feet around in addition to powering the bike. Your other half may find it easier going if she doesn't have to work so hard to keep up. But that means attaching her feet to the pedals.

Alan D wrote: Any suggestion as to how I introduce a normal riding technique?

I would suggest gradually. Take it easy, build up distances and speeds over time, you will get faster as the confidence grows. The worst thing you can do is put her off by dictating your riding style. Perhaps you could lower your cadence then slowly get faster.
When we bought our tandem we both had to change riding style until we found one we could both cope with. When we started I was used to longish rides on my solo and I thought getting a tandem would suddenly make Mrs Benton want to do the same. However this was not the case, but we have compromised on shortish hour long rides to the pub for lunch and then back. slowly the distances are increasing but it still a long way off from the solo journeys. I have accepted this and enjoy the rides for what they are which is nice bimbles in the countryside.

From a technique point of view, a difference in cadence will have to be addressed somehow. My stoker is of the view that you get into the highest gear possible and push hard, hence her cadence is about 30 - 45rpm, comprising of a few strokes - coast - a few more strokes. There is also a fear of speed and I would say normal speed is a tad more than my brisk walking stride. There is a risk of stalling uphill and brakes are applied downhill, last year a following motorist shouted at us to "get a move on". My cadence of about 100rpm, produced peals of protest. Any suggestion as to how I introduce a normal riding technique?

Well the Captain is called "the Captain" for a reason - It's not a democracy! The stoker pedals when you pedal at the cadence you decide. Mrs MWS will ask "Can we stop pedalling while I adjust myself on the saddle?" or "Have we got another gear?" or maybe "Do you have to go so fast?" and latterly" Don't risk my life by doing that again!" In the interests of preserving our 30 year partnership, I usually concede to her polite requests" I am the Captain and I have my stoker's permission to say that. Seriously though its just like a boat or a car: one person needs to make the decisions or it will be a complete foul up and dangerous in traffic.

Why do the captain and stoker need to pedal in sync? Why couldn't the captain's chainring be, say, half the size of the stoker's?

MikewsMITH2 wrote: I am the Captain and I have my stoker's permission to say that

Now there's a target!

Hi Alan - Glad your making progress too, sorry that it might not be as much as you might have hoped for. This is the time to remember the words of the late Sheldon Brown - The stoker is never wrong!
We have had to find compromises for many of the same issues. It does seem to mean that, as the more experienced of the two, I get to make most of the adjustments... I have agreed not to fly down hills, and to reduce my pedalling speed when requested. She now understands the advantages of spinning over grunting and that the ability will only come with practice. It might sound one sided, but the reality is that its a lot of fun when she's happy about things.
I managed to solve her comfort problems with new grips, a handle bar stem extension and some new pedals. That just leaves me with pins and needle in the hands. I think that's mainly due to the effort of controlling the results of our coordination failing. When we get a bit smoother I expect to be able to relax the death grip...
We tried a couple of short climbs. I was astounded at the amount of power we had to play with - at least when we were coordinated. When we tried too hard, out of phase weight shifts made The Beast hard to control. Thats a +1 for getting into the right gear in good time, then!
My personal opinion is that toe clips might be the last thing your stoker wants to see. I can remember feeling nervous myself at the thought of being fastened to the bike, however slightly. I fitted some DMV platforms. Big, double sided and very grippy with the steel grub screws in place. Yesterday it was me who lost the pedals...

snibgo wrote:Why do the captain and stoker need to pedal in sync? Why couldn't the captain's chainring be, say, half the size of the stoker's?

"She's not pedalling back there!!!"

Vorpal wrote:On a tandem, as it seems you've begun to discover, you need to be in the correct gear before you start up a hill. And you've got to keep going. The minimum speed on a tandem is higher than on a solo bike (as you seem to have found out by stalling ) At other times, the cadence is probably less important; you can probably find a compromise. But going up a hill, it's better to be in too low a gear than too high because you can't down shift part way up. Learning the best gearing for hills (and putting it in the correct gear before I got there) was the hardest part of learning to ride a tandem for me.

The way I was taught to solve that was two-fold. You can't change down on the front on the hill but you can on the back so Rule 1 is to get it in the right front ring before the start of the hill then work your way up the rear block as needed on the hill. Second put it in the smallest rear cog and the small ring on the flat and note your speed at a comfortable cadence on your cycle computer. On the hills put it in that gear combination before the start of the hill then using any downhill speed you have, coast until you drop to the noted speed then start pedalling and change down on the rear as necessary as the hill progresses. So Rule 2 is start in small-small and know you pedalling speed for that combination.

HTH

Tut tut TonyR, surely you#re not advocating small/small or big/big combos...?

BTW, you can change the front rings on a hill, you just need to do it before losing all momentum and easing off the pedals a bit. Takes a bit of finesse...