Cycling UK Forum

Just to ad my 2d worth to the discussion.We've been tandeming for over 15years and it was the best cycling descision we've made,Mrs R2 wasn't going to cycle solo the kind of distance/speed that I was used to which was the primary reason for considering tandeming.
We very quickly got used to starting and stopping albeit with the odd mishap,we've had the odd fall mainly at slow speed but on two occasions at over 15mph which did hurt but didn't deter either of us.
We are very insync these days only needing the odd verbal instruction,the most common one is for me to say "granny" which isn't asking if she's still there(we have nine grandchildren) but as an instruction to momentarily ease up to allow the chain to drop onto the inner ring,something that can be difficult if under load as the torque is much greater than a solo and it is worth practicing for new comers.
Different teams have their own ways of starting and it comes naturally after a while,in the begining I used to get on the bike and without thinking bring the rightside pedal upto the two o'clock start position,but if the pedal was at say 12 o'clock I'd unconsciously spin the cranks backward and catch the pedal at two o'clock with my right foot,after bruising my stoker's shins a couple of times and being "instructed" on pain of death, not to do that, I modified a practice I'd done without thinking for all my cycling life.
Which reminds me of another occasion ,whilst stopped at a junction, I reached into my back pocket just Mrs R2 was reaching down for her bottle from the cage and caught her squarely in the face with my elbow,a pure accident but it did hurt her at the time,we were on the S/G with the short rear t/tube,its perhaps something that wouldn't happen with a shorter team or stoker.but Mrs R2 is 5ft 9in and I'm 6ft.
Something that mildy surprises me is how slow we can climb these days,(I've mentioned on here before that since Mrs R2's illness (thyriod cancer) she's not as strong as she used to be)we were on a hilly ride recently when we decided to take in one more hill, a single arrow @ 12ish%(mainly for the view) at one point I noticed we were climbing at 2mph whilst taking in the scenery,something I'd find difficult solo,I put it down to experienced riding and the very long wheelbase of the tandem which it has to be said are very manouvrable at slow speed if the stoker doesn't get nervous.
I would encourage the use of of SPD's for stokers,the foot is easily disengaged when needs be and there is almost zero chance of feet coming off the pedal which is all too easy without any kind of binding.
Just some thoughts,if anything else occurs I pass it on

snibgo wrote:Why do the captain and stoker need to pedal in sync? Why couldn't the captain's chainring be, say, half the size of the stoker's?

1. It is already. The stoker's triple changes all the time.
2. They must be in sync or can literally clash. They can be out of sync by a margin (e.g. 90 degrees) but not opposite each other.
3. The Captain's chain rings (s/he has two, one at the front and one at the back of course) can be any size as long as they are the same size as each other but AFAIU the actual size won't make a difference as the gearing will change to suit - it is crank length that is the significant factor.

Alan D wrote:
From a technique point of view, a difference in cadence will have to be addressed somehow. My stoker is of the view that you get into the highest gear possible and push hard, hence her cadence is about 30 - 45rpm, comprising of a few strokes - coast - a few more strokes. Any suggestion as to how I introduce a normal riding technique?

This is the big issue. Your stoker can maintain this cadence only because you are pedalling - on a steepish hill she would have to get off and walk or get used to lower gears and a higher cadence. Most newish cyclists hate high cadence - but stokers don't even have to do the work that a low cadence demands (i.e. pedalling slowly in a high gear) so they love a low cadence even more - it's like cycling downhill for ever!

Solution:

1. Stay on non-hilly routes while her cycling cadence builds up.
2. Be prepared for a higher gear than you would like while she adapts.
3. Fit differently sized cranks - see Sheldon on this. This could be the Holy Grail.

This isn't really a stoker problem as such - it's the problem of the pilot being the more experienced cyclist, it is just that on a tandem the difference shows up. If the pilot takes the pain (i.e. stays in a higher gear for now), the stoker will start to experience the effect of cycling together and gradually get used to a different cadence, especially when you have to get off to walk the hills because the stoker won't allow the lower gear.

We are very insync these days only needing the odd verbal instruction,the most common one is for me to say "granny" which isn't asking if she's still there(we have nine grandchildren) but as an instruction to momentarily ease up to allow the chain to drop onto the inner ring,something that can be difficult if under load as the torque is much greater than a solo and it is worth practicing for new comers

We chewed up a ring and learnt the hard way - now it's fairly routine. I still shout "gear" but it's very smooth.

The only way round the stoker's wish for a slow cadence is SPDs (or toeclips), coupled with communication. In our early days there were several times when on changing down for a hill, I coupletely removed the pedals from her feet but upping the cadence.

Remember the stoker isn't a passenger, they have to take their share of the work. Tandems are only really easy for the stoker if you're superman (or Wonder Woman). I'm not.

boblo wrote:Tut tut TonyR, surely you#re not advocating small/small or big/big combos...?
.

Yep . All's fair in hills and tandeming.

reohn2 wrote:Which reminds me of another occasion ,whilst stopped at a junction, I reached into my back pocket just Mrs R2 was reaching down for her bottle from the cage and caught her squarely in the face with my elbow,a pure accident but it did hurt her at the time,we were on the S/G with the short rear t/tube,its perhaps something that wouldn't happen with a shorter team or stoker.but Mrs R2 is 5ft 9in and I'm 6ft.

Well at least you did'nt make the single dismount mistake and land a flying kick to her head

Well today someone at work gave me an old pair of pedals with strapped toeclips. One had 'graunching' bearings, so I spent an hour or so disassembling, cleaning and repacking/reassembling. It now spins sweetly I will introduce toeclips to Mrs d-to-be this weekend, when we will try again. Yes I can certainly agree that as the experienced rider, I have to make all the accomodating.

Mounting: The machine is the Dawes Galaxy Twin. One source recommends that I kick my leg forwards over my handlebar, well I tried that once and nearly ended up on my back. I have tried conventionally with a swing of the leg backwards over my saddle, except I clashed with the rear handlebar. I am now trying the approach of leaning the machine towards me and kicking my leg over the top tube, except that I have already added a couple of scratches to it. So what is the best way to mount/dismount?

Starting & stopping: It seems that conventional wisdom is that while I brace the machine, the stoker engages both feet with pedals. Then when I am ready to kick off, I do so from the standing position, bringing bum onto saddle as I lift myself up on the pedal. Also that when we stop temporarily, the stoker keeps their posture. Well we are about the same weight and I am not confident about balancing the machine upright while she's on the pedals. We have been experimenting with us both kicking-off with both our left feet on the ground & bums on saddles; but I'm not convinced this is the best way to do it.

Communicating: I did start off with best intentions. When we kick-off it's "one two three go" also there's, "stop/start pedalling", "gear", "slowing/stopping", "Bump", "turning", "Indicate left/right", "low branch/DUCK!" However, I have found doing all this is more demanding of processing power than the old grey matter can really cope with. So I was getting complaints of, "You did'nt say..."

Wheel skewers: Both my other bikes have these skewers that require a key similar to an Allen Key, except with 5-sides. The tandem has what appears to be conventional quick release lever type skewers. I did ask at the shop if I could use my preferred type, and I got the answer that they might not be strong enough. So can anyone recommend a suitable skewer to defeat the casual kleptomaniac?

Well its late and I need my bed. 'night all.
Alan

horizon wrote:... They must be in sync or can literally clash. They can be out of sync by a margin (e.g. 90 degrees) but not opposite each other. ...

That figures. Thanks, horizon. Sorry about my incorrect terminology; you can tell I know nothing about tandems.

I came across a tridem (is that what 3-seaters are called?), which confused me by having an extra pair of double chainrings. This struck as massively complex, until I realised they didn't have front mechs.

Communication will change as you both get more used to riding the tandem. At the moment, you as the captain will have to describe virtually everything you do, but as time goes on, there will be much less that has to be stated explicitly. Hopefully it will become instinctive and you won't have to give a running commentary, which is almost impossible to sustain. I think the key to non verbal communication on a tandem is not to do anything suddenly. The other important bit is for the stoker to pay attention, so that what's happening will be less of a surprise.

My introduction to tandem riding was with my then fourteen year old son. Starting off was a bit of a problem until we adopted the stoker sitting still with feet on the pedals method. We swapped positions, but I was more than happy to stoke.

My advice, if it's possible, is to find an experienced captain and have a go at stoking. It will give you a much better idea of what the other end of a tandem's like.

Mounting. I lean the tandem away and mount as per single bikes. Lean it further for more clearance. You'l have to be careful to avoid catching the top tube though, especially when you're a bit pooped.

Starting/stopping. We use the 'stoker fully settled in first' method and she stays this way at any temporary stops. You really shouldn't have an issue balancing the weight though it is a bit top heavy. Just think, if you rode a big motorbike, you'd be balancing ~200kg in the same way and your tandem+wife isn't that heavy (presumably ) Get her on and clipped/settled in, get her to spin the pedals round to 2 o'clock, stabilise then you clip in, check behind, call moving off then step up and off in one go. Being in the right gear helps. Too low and you'll be spinning, too high will see you crawling along. Both will destabilise you. Practise, practise, practise

Lastly. Don't over analyse it. It's supposed to be fun. The more pressure you put yourselves under by raising you expectations, the more stressed/anxious you'll be. Take it as it comes. No one says you have to be nicking together within n days and doing 100 milers. Just go to the pub and try to enjoy it.

boblo wrote:Mounting. I lean the tandem away and mount as per single bikes. Lean it further for more clearance. You'l have to be careful to avoid catching the top tube though, especially when you're a bit pooped.

Starting/stopping. We use the 'stoker fully settled in first' method and she stays this way at any temporary stops. You really shouldn't have an issue balancing the weight though it is a bit top heavy. Just think, if you rode a big motorbike, you'd be balancing ~200kg in the same way and your tandem+wife isn't that heavy (presumably ) Get her on and clipped/settled in, get her to spin the pedals round to 2 o'clock, stabilise then you clip in, check behind, call moving off then step up and off in one go. Being in the right gear helps. Too low and you'll be spinning, too high will see you crawling along. Both will destabilise you. Practise, practise, practise

Lastly. Don't over analyse it. It's supposed to be fun. The more pressure you put yourselves under by raising you expectations, the more stressed/anxious you'll be. Take it as it comes. No one says you have to be nicking together within n days and doing 100 milers. Just go to the pub and try to enjoy it.

+1

boblo wrote:Lastly. Don't over analyse it. It's supposed to be fun. The more pressure you put yourselves under by raising your expectations, the more stressed/anxious you'll be. Take it as it comes. No one says you have to be nicking together within n days and doing 100 milers. Just go to the pub and try to enjoy it.

That is true. However there is some coordination to get right....

If you do get it right though you have the immense satisfaction of a shared achievement which you cannot quite get on separate bikes. It also occurs to me that while the pilot is responsible for everything, everything depends on the stoker - their tolerance and forbearance is vital. Having watched the Relate counselling programme last night on TV, I think a couple of days on a tandem should soon sort things out in a make or break kind of way.

horizon wrote: you have the immense satisfaction of a shared achievement which you cannot quite get on separate bikes

There's certainly something surprisingly satisfying about tandeming with the SWMBO! It would be interesting to find out if that is also the case when the crew members are not united by the bonds of matrimony, as they say.

If there are any more twopenn'orths going, how about some tips on hillstarts? Is it better to plump for the highest gear you dare in an attempt to reach manouvering speed quickly, or a lower gear and hope you can spin ast enough to make it.

If all goes pearshaped, is it reasonable to expect the stoker to hop off and push?

DaveP wrote:
If there are any more twopenn'orths going, how about some tips on hillstarts?

Don't stop on hills?

Personally I use the small ring and two or three down from the big cog. The stoker has a lot of responsibility to keep the pedals turning while you clip in. Having a fixie riding Captain helps. If the road is wide enough try starting across the hill then turn up it once you are rolling.