Cycling UK Forum

When you take up tandem riding there are new skills to be learnt. From what you've said upthread your stoker doesn't have very advanced cycling skills anyway. That becomes clear when you're both on the same bike together.

The problem is that you're also her partner - and as a wise man said to me about one of Polly's dafter ideas, "she'll listen to me, I'm not her husband - I'm not even her boyfriend". If you can find an experienced captain to take her on a few rides, I'm sure things will click into place and she'll accept things from someone who "knows what he's doing" more than she'll accept them from you and you'll bypass simple things being turned into emotional confrontations. On a hard, hot, hilly day on the tandem even a simple "you ok darling?" can get the response "CAN'T YOU FEEL ME PEDALLING?!!!!" It's still great fun though.

Robert wrote: ...... simple things being turned into emotional confrontations. .......

Life is one long "emotional confrontation" with Mrs Mick F, but I love her to bits!

snibgo wrote:On a tandem, who checks behind that it's clear to pull out, eg to overtake or turn right? Is it normally the stoker or captain? I'm just curious (or nosey).

My stoker is only little, so I do everything. Though she is learning to signal, and now tells me when she is doing so. I still have to tell her to put hands back on the handlebars for the turn. And I was rather amused a couple of weeks ago, to hear a cheery, "Oil up, mummy" from behind.

Only just found the time to report last week ends adventures. Some weeks are just a rush!
We had been thinking of going out on the roads early Sunday morning, but something came up - and then I got cold feet about managing in traffic without a mirror. We went for a roll along a local railway path, returning along the nearly parallel towpath.
It was exercise, and it was time in the saddle and I was curious to see how I would cope on a rougher surface and a narrower path. For the most part things were fine. What a relief! However we did have our first off ...
There was a row of slightly raised concrete access slabs on the towpath, which we had to ride across. Just as we were about to roll off the other side I realised that the grass had concealed a six inch wide mini trench which we were about to drop into. It was far too late to avoid it, and the inevitable happened quickly. Fortunately, no one was hurt. No one landed in doggy poo. Just a few nettle stings.
I remember thinking, as we were going down, that this was it. All over. She would never ride with me again.
As it turned out, when we had picked ourselves up and I had pointed out the cause of the fall she was fine. She appreciated that it was an exceptional circumstance that could have caught out anyone, and we remounted and enjoyed the rest of our ride.
Next week, we take the high roads...

That was a very brave move going along the tow path for a first ride.
Judging by our first rides I would have thought the possibility for ending up in the canal was high. That would certainly have put Mrs Benton off the tandem for life.

Well done anyway. Sounds like you are starting to get used to the tandem and each other.

Well last weekend was our fourth ride and I need to address the question of cadence & gearing. This was causing a major headache and I just don't know how to tackle it.
I wear bike shoes and have SDP pedals on my bikes. My normal cadence is, I would guess, 90 - 100 rpm and when riding on the flat for a speed of 20-25mph, I tend to stay in the lower half of the cassette when on my largest chainwheel. The effort is easy and the going is good.
However, MrsD2B has a different concept of pedalling & gearing and I am banging my head against a wall because I just cannot get round it. She wears ordinary shoes and insists on open pedals, toeclips are a definate no-no.
I would estimate her cadence is less than half of mine and she rides in the higher end of the cassette. The experience when on the tandem is like wading through water. I have tried explaining that the most comfortable rate to pedal is higher, that way the muscles are not working so hard and the knees are not taking such a strain. Also you can respond to changes easier. Yet it gets nowhere! I tried using the analogy of a car's gears, "This is like trying to drive your car in top gear at 20mph" The reply is, "I need to feel I am pushing against something". So last weekend we struggled along at an estimated 8mph and I have never pushed so hard in all my life. I would concede by going into a higher gear, then 10min later have to drop down a few because my legs cannot take it and so I get protests that we are pedalling too fast. No kidding, we were on the largest chainwheel and in the upper end of the cassette. The effort was not easy and the going, certainly not good.
As for going down hills..... Don't get me talking about going down hills, it has to be brakes on all the way.
I am not out to race on this tandem, it is a touring machine and I don't mind dropping the speed. But at this rate it will not be going anywhere because the pilot has worn out his knees within the first 5 miles, or collapsed from exhaustion.
What can I do?

"She needs to feel she is pushing against something"?
I wondered if she was worried that her feet will slide off the pedals, but I ride (a Brompton) in ordinary office shoes without this happening. You can get little toe hook things - I have some on my MTB, I wonder if that would help? Is she pedalling with the ball of her foot, not the instep?
Is she even prepared to try your way with the cadence and gears?

With the hills, I think you will have to take things very slowly. I know that if my boyfriend and I ever get this tandem ride I keep suggesting, we will have to descend at his speed and I won't enjoy it - but I'm willing to go as far out of my comfort zone as I can on this one. It sounds like if you scare Mrs D2B she won't get back on the bike.

I should add that not long after I got my road bike I went on a training ride with my triathlon club and I remember cycling along this back road and being really nervous on all the hills. Two years later I was racing a duathlon along that same stretch of road and hoofing it down all the same hills... so I think confidence will come, though you may have to accept that you have to brake more than you would like to.

Alan D wrote: "I need to feel I am pushing against something".

I've heard that one before! She still insists on a 115" top gear on her solo bike, but she's not riding either at the moment as she's recovering from a knee operation.

As for going down hills..... Don't get me talking about going down hills, it has to be brakes on all the way.

been there too

What can I do?

It's got to be a compromise hasn't it? That doesn't mean you doing exactly what she wants, neither does it mean you not changing your style at all. Tandems are about compromise and working together, but you can't do all the work. You're clearly the stronger rider and you can drop your cadence a certain amount, but she's got to meet you somewhere, if not even half way. Prior to our first tour I had to explain that whilst the tandem gives you a lot of what you want, if I have to wait for five minutes at the top and bottom of every hill we encouter on solos, the tandem isn't going to work. At the end of the day she has to want to ride it, if she doesn't have the basic desire or aptitude you'll have to stop banging your head sooner or later.

Cadence can clearly be a problem,some compromise,will be needed.

As for feeling that the stoker is working,you could try moving cranks out of phase.
My wife and I ride 90 degrees out ,that might be too extreme in your case ,but a few teeth might help.

Soft pedal for a bit then she'll know about doing some work

Does she want to be a cyclist?I know we get these mad ideas about our partners joining in but.... If she's really inflexible and not prepared to change her preconceptions, you could relegate the tandem to short, local pub rides and work on her application - slowly.

Mmmm. As well as joining me on The Beast my wife has been learning to ride a bike this year, and she had a period of feeling very insecure when she span out (easy to do in the low gears she was using!) The problem appeared to be that without pedal pressure she was taking far too much weight on her hands, so much so that she became unable to steer and actually fell off a time or two. We practiced simply coasting while consciously using one foot to relieve hand pressure and she eventually got over it.

It might also be worth reviewing her position on the bike. Is her saddle far enough back? Is reaching to the handlebars making her prone to topple?

I hope you dont mind me saying that it sounds as if you might be setting your sights a bit on the high side. You appear to be anaccomplished pedaller but few novices could attain the sort of cadence you mention. For that matter, neither could I. As I understand it, its not a question of fitness in the usual sense, but of balance, coordination, and the recruitment of fast twitch muscle fibres. Practice is the solution, but the pace cannot be forced. You are the one who will have to change your ways, at least to start with.
Could you try pedalling at a speed to suit her, using the gears to control the effort and forgetting about speed for the time being?
HTH

Alan D wrote:My normal cadence is, I would guess, 90 - 100 rpm ... She wears ordinary shoes and insists on open pedals, toeclips are a definate no-no.

I don't see that as a problem, in itself. I've always ridden at that cadence, mostly with ordinary shoes on ordinary pedals.

For the rest, it seems that compromise is needed.

boblo wrote:Soft pedal for a bit then she'll know about doing some work

That's a very effective way of letting your partner know your there! As the conversation has gone on our tandem "huh, you think I'm not pedalling! Let's see how you get on when I'm not pedalling"

boblo wrote:Does she want to be a cyclist?I know we get these mad ideas about our partners joining in but.... If she's really inflexible and not prepared to change her preconceptions, you could relegate the tandem to short, local pub rides and work on her application - slowly.

Or you could find an other stoker
Riding with other partners might help - I've said that before though.

Davep makes a good point...

I've (we've?) assumed swmbo is a competent solo cyclist. Is this the case? You could get her on one of the course for basic proficiency and that might help her confidence. It would alleviate the partner/partner aggro a bit as well.

As for 100rpm for a novice? Too high. She'll think she's in the spin cycle of a washer Get to around 60 - 70 in a reasonable gear (i.e. NOT mashing but with some resistance) and work her up to 80-90. Miles are your friend here.

I remember hiring a tandem, when on holiday in Tintagel with a (in hindsight) self-interested nasty girlfriend years ago. It seemed the only way was up from Tintagel and we headed off up to Delabole; by the time we got up the hill I felt my knees and heart were at the point of collapse. When I attempted to quiz my partner as to how much effort she was actually putting in, attempting not to create an argument, she admitted that "I was scared, and so didn't put any pressure on the pedals." This despite my repeated requests for more power! I should have known then we were better off apart!

I think it's a good idea for both riders, and especially inexperienced rear riders, to use SPDs or toe clips just to avouid the risk of slipping off a pedal and getting ankles mashed as the pedals don't stop. This also gives the hidden benefit more efficient power transfer to pedals. My wife has only really done "proper" cycling with me on a tandem. She used SPDs from the start and has thus been indoctrinated into riding at a relaxing cadence without much discussion or argument. We tour very comfortably and effectively.

I ride quite regularly with a lady who I only know through her appealing for a tandem front rider. So our relationship is less familiar than with my usual rear rider. She has some mobility problems, so doesn't (can't) ride at a high cadence; she is also a hugely experienced rear rider, having used a tandem as main transport for years and toured half the world. I do find I am tired after a ride with her, due to constant use of higher gears than I would prefer but we get along pretty briskly and I get more used to this different riding style every time; indeed I suspect it has strengthened me in some ways.

You might well improve your compromis by encouraging your intended to fix her feet to the pedals. You might also tempt her into the advantages of higher cadence by encouraging her to try spinning classes at a gym; this will improve her fitness and encourage fast pedalling (if the class leader is any good.)