A place to record lenient sentencing for motorvehicle....

Manc33
Posts: 2218
Joined: 25 Apr 2015, 9:37pm

Re: A place to record lenient sentencing for motorvehicle....

Post by Manc33 »

"Bowers was said to be travelling at 55mph and had an unobstructed view of the Kia for about 150 to 175 metres."

How is this not manslaughter?
We'll always be together, together on electric bikes.
Jdsk
Posts: 24639
Joined: 5 Mar 2019, 5:42pm

Re: A place to record lenient sentencing for motorvehicle....

Post by Jdsk »

Manc33 wrote: 19 Aug 2022, 8:18pm "Bowers was said to be travelling at 55mph and had an unobstructed view of the Kia for about 150 to 175 metres."

How is this not manslaughter?
From the Code for Crown Prosecutors:

"Road Traffic - Charging":
https://www.cps.gov.uk/legal-guidance/r ... c-charging

Jonathan
ChrisButch
Posts: 1188
Joined: 24 Feb 2009, 12:10pm

Re: A place to record lenient sentencing for motorvehicle....

Post by ChrisButch »

This is a sort of 'inverted/antidote to the subject of the thread' news story. A jury clears a cyclist of the 'wanton and furious' charge after a pedestrian death. I'm putting it here as I don't think there's a permanent thread on such cases:
https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk ... r-24954444
Last edited by ChrisButch on 7 Sep 2022, 4:09pm, edited 1 time in total.
Bonefishblues
Posts: 11010
Joined: 7 Jul 2014, 9:45pm
Location: Near Bicester Oxon

Re: A place to record lenient sentencing for motorvehicle....

Post by Bonefishblues »

That's a dead link
Jdsk
Posts: 24639
Joined: 5 Mar 2019, 5:42pm

Re: A place to record lenient sentencing for motorvehicle....

Post by Jdsk »

https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk ... r-24954444

and it's also worth reading:
https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk ... n-24947992

Jonathan

PS: I agree about adding it to this thread.
ChrisButch
Posts: 1188
Joined: 24 Feb 2009, 12:10pm

Re: A place to record lenient sentencing for motorvehicle....

Post by ChrisButch »

Bonefishblues wrote: 7 Sep 2022, 3:55pm That's a dead link
Sorry, missed digit. My original post now edited to correct.
thirdcrank
Posts: 36776
Joined: 9 Jan 2007, 2:44pm

Re: A place to record lenient sentencing for motorvehicle....

Post by thirdcrank »

It's impossible to know if a significant chunk of evidence was excluded because I don't find it easy to understand why the defendant was charged. Perhaps the reports of the evidence or my reading of them had shortcomings. Two elements of the prosecution were (a) that some distance prior to the collision the defendant failed to comply with a red traffic light and (b) he was riding fast for a cyclist.

The prosecution seems to have made an assertion that the defendant was riding some sort of personal time trial but I've seen nothing to support the assertion.

The jury seems to have accepted the defence submission that the rider's speed etc were OK - as they would have been had he been in a car.

It seems the police didn't attend initially, hence the appeal to which the defendant responded.

During the discussion of the Alliston case, several posters expressed their fears that a prosecution like this might happen and they seem to have been proved right.
thirdcrank
Posts: 36776
Joined: 9 Jan 2007, 2:44pm

Re: or have any advice for totally clueless, unskilled new cyclist?

Post by thirdcrank »

Case at court earlier today when a lorry driver - Robert Whiting - was sentenced for driving over and killing a rider - Dr Suet Ling Felce - who was properly giving way at the entry to a roundabout. It's a bit broken up because it's been recorded by a traditional court reporter but imo well-worth reading

https://www.oxfordmail.co.uk/news/21220 ... ord-court/
Jdsk
Posts: 24639
Joined: 5 Mar 2019, 5:42pm

Re: or have any advice for totally clueless, unskilled new cyclist?

Post by Jdsk »

Thankyou

It's helpful to see the sentencing remarks and the explanation of how the sentence follows from the guidelines.

...

How to donate to the Ling Felce Memorial Fund:
https://www.camsoxford.ox.ac.uk/about/t ... elce-award

Jonathan
Jdsk
Posts: 24639
Joined: 5 Mar 2019, 5:42pm

Re: A place to record lenient sentencing for motorvehicle....

Post by Jdsk »

An employment tribunal decision rather than criminal prosecution:

"A London bus driver's appeal against being sacked has been thrown out at an employment tribunal after he was found to have 'used his bus as a weapon' to intimidate a cyclist who slowed his bus down.":
https://www.mylondon.news/news/south-lo ... r-25162651

Jonathan
User avatar
Redvee
Posts: 2465
Joined: 8 Mar 2010, 8:58pm

Re: A place to record lenient sentencing for motorvehicle....

Post by Redvee »

Suspended sentence for punching a cyclist!!!!

Second time this driver has had issues with cyclists

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-bristol-63134820
fastpedaller
Posts: 3435
Joined: 10 Jul 2014, 1:12pm
Location: Norfolk

Re: A place to record lenient sentencing for motorvehicle....

Post by fastpedaller »

I don't understand why such poor driving doesn't generate a lifetime driving ban. As a society, we (or the 'legal system') appear to consider that an offender's convenience of easy travel is more important than a victim's life.
thirdcrank
Posts: 36776
Joined: 9 Jan 2007, 2:44pm

Re: A place to record lenient sentencing for motorvehicle....

Post by thirdcrank »

fastpedaller wrote: 22 Oct 2022, 11:24am I don't understand why such poor driving doesn't generate a lifetime driving ban. As a society, we (or the 'legal system') appear to consider that an offender's convenience of easy travel is more important than a victim's life.
Recycling an ancient post I can't find.

I don't think this is motivated by an offender's convenience, but rather their rehabilitation.

AIUI, the "modern" system of totting up and a formal tariff of disqualification for driving offences dates from Ernest Marples and the RTA 1960. Bearing in mind the occasions when courts find special reasons not to disqualify an offender, it may seem implausible but disqualification from driving can be very attractive to a court in some circumstances. In the 1960s there were soon quite a lot of people, especially young men who had never passed a driving test, who were effectively disqualified for life. That didn't stop them driving but rather had them in and out of prison.

As a very new PC - late 1960s I was peripherally involved with such a defendant whose case eventually went to the European Court of this, that or the other. In those days, a convicted prisoner "on appeal" retained the privileges of an unconvicted prisoner. (They may still do so. I don't know anything about prison regimes.) Somebody who was in Armley (gaol) was there for a lot of offences including one of mine and his address was on my car area. I had to go there several times to collect information about his antecedents etc and somebody - probably his mum as he was a young man - explained the motivation behind his appeal.

Some time later, I read the report of his appeal and several others heard together and the decision was (in my words) that it was wrong to disqualify somebody from driving forever as it gave them no hope of rehabilitation, but rather encouraged them to ignore the ban to nobody's benefit.

I believe that broad rationale has continued to guide policy here, including the possibility of a ban being reduced on appeal under s 42 Road Traffic (Offenders) Act 1988

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1988/53/section/42

For anybody wanting to trawl cases heard by the European courts, I cannot now remember my man's name, other than that the first syllable of his surname was "Van" and no, his full name wasn't White Vanman
Post Reply