A place to record lenient sentencing for motorvehicle....

mattheus
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Location: Western Europe

Re: A place to record lenient sentencing for motorvehicle....

Post by mattheus »

Rob Archer wrote: 10 Apr 2022, 6:58pm So, it cost him £450 in total. A ban is pointless as he shouldn't have been driving in the first place. The cyclist (me) lost a year-old Brompton (£1200) and several week's work (at least £2000), as well as a shoulder that's still painful after a couple of months physio. I was really lucky not to come off worse as he drove over my leg too which was badly bruised. I'm pursuing a civil claim but not expecting much as he had no insurance.
Agree about the ban: I think "we" (internet cyclists etc) totally overestimate their effectiveness. (Personally I think a short-sharp-shock of a week in the slammer would have more effect, but apparently no data backs me up, hey-ho ... )

Good luck with the civil claim - I think this is one for the MIB? Best to remember you're alive and (mostly) in one piece, try not to stress about the money, or hold a grudge (based on my own experiences).
Rob Archer wrote: 10 Apr 2022, 6:58pm Being described as 'elderly' has also caused me great trauma. Both the police officers there were aged about 12!
:lol:
thirdcrank
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Joined: 9 Jan 2007, 2:44pm

Re: A place to record lenient sentencing for motorvehicle....

Post by thirdcrank »

Yes. I think the MIB is probably the only bit of good news here. I fear the £200 compo may be worthless and more trouble than it's worth on top of that. It will be collected as part of the fine enforcement system which isn't particularly effective with impecunious repeat offenders, although AFAIK, compo gets priority over anything they do collect. To put the tin lid on, I fancy that any MIB payout will be discounted by the £200 rather than what you actually receive. When the criminal courts were given the power to award summary compo, I thought traffic accident compo was excluded because of things like the complications with third party insurance.

All the best with this and please let us know how you get on.
hemo
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Location: West Sussex

Re: A place to record lenient sentencing for motorvehicle....

Post by hemo »

One can only assume she will have to pay future sky high premiums if the injured are persuing her for injury/trauma compo.
ratherbeintobago
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Re: A place to record lenient sentencing for motorvehicle....

Post by ratherbeintobago »

hemo wrote: 28 Jul 2022, 8:48pm One can only assume she will have to pay future sky high premiums if the injured are persuing her for injury/trauma compo.
You’d have to wonder.

You’d also have to wonder if the insurance industry reaction to her trying to insure anything bigger than a 106 will be ‘ha ha no’.
reohn2
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Joined: 26 Jun 2009, 8:21pm

Re: A place to record lenient sentencing for motorvehicle....

Post by reohn2 »

With regard to the last three cases reported above,one wonders why,lenient fines aside,there was no requirement for the offenders to resit their driving test after lengthy driving bans!
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hemo
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Location: West Sussex

Re: A place to record lenient sentencing for motorvehicle....

Post by hemo »

The resititng a driving test following a ban should be compulsory.
reohn2
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Re: A place to record lenient sentencing for motorvehicle....

Post by reohn2 »

hemo wrote: 31 Jul 2022, 1:15pm The resititng a driving test following a ban should be compulsory.
After a ban of twelve months or more agreed,IMO drivers banned between six a twelve months should have their driving assessed by a MOT examiner(at their own cost)before being allowed back onto public roads.
I also think there aren't enough one to six month bans being issued by the courts.
I strongly suspect the reasons for lenient sentences for driving crime to be political.
-----------------------------------------------------------
"All we are not stares back at what we are"
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thirdcrank
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Joined: 9 Jan 2007, 2:44pm

Re: A place to record lenient sentencing for motorvehicle....

Post by thirdcrank »

AIUI, the prosecution case Dolly Rincon-Aguilar, the driver the driver convicted after the Earlsfield crash, was that while manoeuvring she mistakenly pressed the accelerator rather than the brake, with terrible results. The jury convicted her of careless driving and she was punished for that offence with a fine and 6 penalty points. ie Not disqualified.

I appreciate that there are those who believe that driving a motor vehicle is inherently dangerous so all drivers are ipso facto guilty of dangerous driving but that's not how it works in this country.

Some four decades ago the CPS decided that criminal prosecution was not appropriate for cases involving a momentary lapse of attention (my words) and that's exactly what we have here. The prosecution investigation eliminated anything like being distracted by a phone or the effects of drink etc.

I can only think that the truly grave consequences of this crash have pushed some Crown Prosecutor into feeling "something must be done."
mattheus
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Joined: 29 Dec 2008, 12:57pm
Location: Western Europe

Re: A place to record lenient sentencing for motorvehicle....

Post by mattheus »

ratherbeintobago wrote: 28 Jul 2022, 9:01pm
hemo wrote: 28 Jul 2022, 8:48pm One can only assume she will have to pay future sky high premiums if the injured are persuing her for injury/trauma compo.
You’d have to wonder.

You’d also have to wonder if the insurance industry reaction to her trying to insure anything bigger than a 106 will be ‘ha ha no’.
Of course none of this would actually prevent her from driving. Millions of uninsured drivers on the roads as I speak.
Stevek76
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Joined: 28 Jul 2015, 11:23am

Re: A place to record lenient sentencing for motorvehicle....

Post by Stevek76 »

thirdcrank wrote: 31 Jul 2022, 2:38pm Some four decades ago the CPS decided that criminal prosecution was not appropriate for cases involving a momentary lapse of attention (my words) and that's exactly what we have here. The prosecution investigation eliminated anything like being distracted by a phone or the effects of drink etc.
Which gets at the issue here: society effectively treats driving as a right once tests have been passed. It then requires criminal levels of negligence to have that right revoked.

If it were treated correctly as a privilege then revocation and suspension of licenses would be handled outside of the courts and independently of any proceedings regarding the criminal culpability of drivers. Momentary lapses of attention don't make one a criminal but they should be grounds for suspension/revocation of licenses for the safety of others.

That would obviously lead a wider issue of policing driving without a licence. This would clearly need resources though I wonder if some additional tweaks such as requirement to produce license to fill up (also £5 limit unless valid tax/mot) could help.
The contents of this post, unless otherwise stated, are opinions of the author and may actually be complete codswallop
Jdsk
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Re: A place to record lenient sentencing for motorvehicle....

Post by Jdsk »

Pedestrian on pavement killed in collision. Offender left the scene. 12 months imprisonment and disqualification from driving for two years and six months:
https://bit.ly/3PYthsN

Video:
https://bit.ly/3zubsea

Jonathan
thirdcrank
Posts: 36776
Joined: 9 Jan 2007, 2:44pm

Re: A place to record lenient sentencing for motorvehicle....

Post by thirdcrank »

I try to remain detached over reports of crashes, but this one has touched me.

Lorry driver, 35, killed mum-of-four trapped in broken down car on the M60

https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk ... m-24762234

A woman broke down on the M60, ending up on the chevrons separating a slip road from the main drag with her hazards flashing. At least 19 drivers called the emergency services (shorthand for so many calls were received the control room stopped noting them) She was rammed by a skip lorry doing 55mph whose driver didn't realise the car was stationary in spite of a clear view from 150+ yards.

In another report, the judge was scathing about Green Flag
At Manchester Crown Court, Judge Anthony Cross accused Green Flag of “systemic failings” and called for police to investigate whether more could have been done to rescue Dumbaya. The lorry driver, John Bowers, 33, admitted causing death by careless driving.

The judge also questioned why the organisation had not reported the breakdown to police or encouraged the family to do so.

“This tragic accident was the result of an accumulation of errors starting after Mrs Dumbuya could not get to the hard shoulder,” he said.

“She sensibly called Green Flag, as she and her family had sensibly paid for their assistance, and yet she was told that they could not help. The brutal reality is that she had a dreadful conundrum whether to get out of the car or stay in.

“It seems that this is a systemic failure.”
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/0 ... king-hard/

And when the driver's husband went to help, he was confronted by the smashed car with his wife's body still in it.
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