Hobbs bike?

[barbelfisher]

Hi, just bought a really nice lugged frame off ebay with Hobbs Decals on it. The seller was honest enough to state that the numbers didn't tally so it was a badged up other frame. However I bought it on that premise as it was a really nice lugged frame. The lugs are Nervex pro and I have taken pics before starting a restoration to perhaps a freewheel. Can anybody help with ideas as to the maker if I supply pics please.

Kind regards barbelfisher.

[thirdcrank]

Presumably it's not one with distinctive features intended to identify the builder (eg curly stays.) If so, I don't think adding pics would help.

Some of the websites for old bikes have enthusiasts specialising in individual builders, and some have amazing knowledge - that's probably how your seller knew this frame was a ringer - but I think there is still a limit. Some shops selling their own-brand frames bought them in from other builders and applied their own transfers, and some builders worked for more than one shop. Bear in mind also that a lot of new lightweight frames were built to the buyer's own spec including any idiosyncrasies etc.

[9494arnold]

Look at Classic Rendezvous (on the web): Hobbs Section

Then Contact Veteran Cycle Club : There will be a Marque enthusiast.

But if they are Nervex Professional Lugs (or indeed any Nervex Lugs) whilst Very Nice and almost certainly a Quality hand built frame they won't help you Identify the frame.I have had or seen Peugeot, Holdsworth, Claud Butler ,Bates, Hetchins, Macklam, Bob Jac kson and others all with nervex Lugs .

A frame number would be a better starting point.I had an exquisite but way too small frame with Nervex Pro Lugs, never did identify it .

PA

[thirdcrank]

Look at Classic Rendezvous (on the web): Hobbs Section ...

The point I was trying to make is that if you know already from the frame number that it isn't a Hobbs, then the Hobbs section is logically the last place to look.

[barbelfisher]

Thanks for all the replies, I do have a frame no on the rear wheel dropout and the same number on the fork stem but not had a lot of luck with that either, so thought the lugs may be an easier way, thanks for the help anyway folks.

Regards barbelfisher.

[thirdcrank]

Just to make clear, I don't think any of this detracts from your frame and if anybody along the way has been misled by the transfers, at least the seller has been frank with you. In the heyday of the traditional British lightweight bike - when the words "531 throughout" were spoken with reverence - loads of craftsmen were producing frames in the backs of bike shops all over the place. A few makers such as Claud Butler went into production on a larger scale, while maintaining their reputation for quality. More recently, others have gained a wider reputation simply because their businesses have continued in production when others didn't.

While it's nice to be the proud owner of a genuine this or that frame, it's the standard of the craftsmanship and the materials used that's important.

[barbelfisher]

Does that mean the numbers won't identify the frame, I have looked on the various sites and not found any real help. I would like to get the frame repainted and put some decals on it. Thanks for your advice.

Cheers John.

[thirdcrank]

Does that mean the numbers won't identify the frame,....

I'd have to say I don't really know and I think it depends. (I only posted when the thread had gone unanswered a while and getting a bit of discussion going sometimes attracts somebody with the detailed knowledge.)

I think many builders simply began at frame No.1 and carried on from there. Some had something a bit more sophisticated eg including year letters. I'm not sure how many kept records. It's been reported on here that the Dawes records have been lost, OTOH, a few years ago they did tell me in Bob Jackson's (now in their fourth shop in Leeds, and with some discontinuity of ownership) that they still have all the old records of JRJ etc.

So, for the frame number to be any help, it needs to be from a maker using a unique numbering system and then you need to find somebody with the knowledge to associate it with the right builder. Quite a tall order. It must be easier for, say, somebody with the knowledge of Hobbs to say "Not genuine" than for somebody to be able to say "Definitely a Walt Ormsby" or whatever.

[barbelfisher]

Still trying to find the original maker and the number seems to tally with Holdsworth, there are cable guides down the right hand side of the down tube and a small pin brazed on the underside which I presume is a stop for the downtube levers. Any ideas as to when the downtube lever came into use for the derailleur please?

Cheers barbelfisher

[thirdcrank]

In the absence of anything from somebody who knows better, down tube levers for the front mechwere the original type. (There were Campag mechs that had a rod going down the seatstay but that's not relevant here, and plenty of early double clangers - AKA front mechs., were operated by a rod down the seat tube, or similar.) I think the difference is between brazed on bosses and the type on a clip (now known as band-on.) When I started in the late 1950's there were two different types of boss - what I think of as Campag and Simplex. The Campag boss eventually became the standard type. Around that time, a fashion started for the Campag "bare wire" set-up which was all clips and no braze-ons. (There was also a fashion for the back brake cable to run along the top of the top tube in one continuous length of outer, held in place with three small Campag clips.) The fashion for no braze-ons was explained by by a suggestion that brazing weakened the frame tubing. For a while, braze-ons almost completely disappeared for trend followers I think, but I don't know for certain, that a brazed-on peg to stop the band-on lever bosses from slipping is fairly modern (by my standards. There was a period - late fifties through to early sixties) when the awful Campag bar-end levers were "the thing" but down tube levers made a come back.

Others' memories may be different to mine but as these fads were quite widespread, apeing continental racing trends, I'm not sure if any of it helps your quest for info.

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PS Remember also that once a frame has been resprayed, there's no easy way of knowing which braze-ons, if any, have been added, removed or just moved about during the life of the frame.