Cycling UK Forum

Chris the Sheep wrote:I was in London on Monday on business, first time I've been there on a weekday for several years.

Naively I expected that the boom in cycling went hand-in-hand with drivers who were more familiar with cyclists and therefore knew what to expect, and facilities that would put a provincial town to shame (I lived in London in the late 80s and cyclists were rare).

How wrong I was; a couple of 30-minute taxi rides showed plenty of driving that's far worse than anything I see back home, aggression, close passes, you name it. Coupled with cycling infrastructure which is no better than I'm used to but on much, much busier roads it comes as no surprise that these incidents keep happening.

How many cyclists does it take for the critical mass to threaten the dominance of the motor vehicle?

It really is heartbreaking to hear of these needless deaths and injuries; my sympathy to anyone affected by this and any other incidents, and my admiration to those who continue to cycle in London despite the conditions. Regardless of whose 'fault' this was, the roads are on a knife-edge and something that would be a minor incident where I live becomes a life-changing or life-ending event in London. So sad.

Your short visit did not give you a proper view of London cycling. Cycling, like driving, in London is different and more cut and thrust but it is not dangerous. There have been over seven million Boris Bike journeys completed without a single serious injury and there are some 200 million cycle journeys a year in London with a very small number of deaths or serious injuries. Yes, every one is a tragedy but they are very very rare. The lack of any infrastructure is actually a bonus in my opinion. What there is is positively bad - the Bloomsbury segregated cycle route for example. I have no problems cycling on London roads. You just need to be equally assertive as the drivers and take special care around the cause of the majority of deaths, the big trucks.

Chris the Sheep wrote:I was in London on Monday on business, first time I've been there on a weekday for several years.

Naively I expected that the boom in cycling went hand-in-hand with drivers who were more familiar with cyclists and therefore knew what to expect, and facilities that would put a provincial town to shame (I lived in London in the late 80s and cyclists were rare).

How wrong I was; a couple of 30-minute taxi rides showed plenty of driving that's far worse than anything I see back home, aggression, close passes, you name it. Coupled with cycling infrastructure which is no better than I'm used to but on much, much busier roads it comes as no surprise that these incidents keep happening.

How many cyclists does it take for the critical mass to threaten the dominance of the motor vehicle?

It really is heartbreaking to hear of these needless deaths and injuries; my sympathy to anyone affected by this and any other incidents, and my admiration to those who continue to cycle in London despite the conditions. Regardless of whose 'fault' this was, the roads are on a knife-edge and something that would be a minor incident where I live becomes a life-changing or life-ending event in London. So sad.

Chris, everything you say is poignant; I read it twice. I've been getting around London by bike since about 1978 & I don't remember so many hassles back then!
Regarding this particular incident; we do not know the circumstances; If my memory is correct I think the Met police recon that 1 in 3 incidents involving cyclists put the cyclist at fault so I think all road users need to wake up &/or be educated as to their duty to others.

I appreciate I only saw a snapshot, and don't know the circumstances of this incident, but my point really was that I was surprised at how much like anywhere else in the country cycling in London seems to be, but with London driving thrown in (I lived there, I was a dab hand at the traffic light grand prix on Euston Road) and with vast numbers of cyclists. I should say when I was there it was a heatwave and outside rush hour so I think most of the cyclists weren't commuters, rather they were just using bikes to get about.

I'm not a fan of cycling infrastucture in this country, but I thought maybe London had infrastructure solutions in place which worked and took account of the number of cyclists - but it appears to be be mainly exactly the same as we have at home, i.e. often doing more harm than good. I did see the Bloomsbury route and was just grateful not to be blessed with such a 'facility' in my own area!

I just wonder if people accept the 'cut and thrust' as part of the 'buzz' of living in London - which is great for those who thrive in that environment and are happy asserting their position on the road - but even in London not everybody's like that and it's those slower, less assertive cyclists who just looked so vulnerable. Same as anywhere else, but with so many more opportunities for things to go wrong. I know the stats for fatalities are actually extremely low when put in context of the number of journeys, and there's a lot more give-and-take among road users than in the less congested and more ordered roads with which I'm familiar. Don't get me wrong, I love London - always have, and would have happily used a Boris Bike on my last visit if I'd been on my own.

TonyR wrote:[ Cycling, like driving, in London is different and more cut and thrust but it is not dangerous. There have been over seven million Boris Bike journeys completed without a single serious injury and there are some 200 million cycle journeys a year in London with a very small number of deaths or serious injuries. Yes, every one is a tragedy but they are very very rare. The lack of any infrastructure is actually a bonus in my opinion. What there is is positively bad - the Bloomsbury segregated cycle route for example. I have no problems cycling on London roads. You just need to be equally assertive as the drivers and take special care around the cause of the majority of deaths, the big trucks.

+1, well put. However, it still leaves a problem for slow, non-assertive cyclists. Do we give up and advise them to keep off certain routes?
My sympathies for all affected by this tragedy.

REVEALED: Project that might have saved cyclist’s life - King's Cross Junction safety work was delayed:

http://www.camdennewjournal.com/news/20 ... -work-was-

Rise in cycling deaths highlights 'appalling' road layouts:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/b ... ad-layouts

Kings Cross blog seeks corporate manslaughter charge over cycle and pedestrian safety

In an update on Sunday Perrin explained that he had written to the coroner who will preside at the hearing into Min Joo Lee's death, enclosing a copy of the report and asking him "to consider raising the issue of corporate manslaughter with the CPS [Crown Prosecution Service]." Today he has posted a copy of the letter he's written to the senior Met traffic management officer examining the death. He sent a copy of the report to the officer too.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/dave ... sfeed=true

Gosh, that's terrible. My condolences to this rider's family.

I was out for a ride a couple of Saturdays ago and cycled past a ghost bike (is that right?) on the A4 Portway approaching Bristol. Very poignant. It certainly made me think. I wonder how many drivers know what these bikes symbolise?

How to avoid King’s Cross as a Cyclist:
http://cycling-intelligence.com/2011/10 ... a-cyclist/

Over the weekend, James Thomas (on Twitter, he’s @jamesWPThomas) has been working on the ghost bike for Min Joo Lee. She was killed there on 3 October by a lorry while she was cycling to St. Martins College at King’s Cross.

He’s going to install the bike at the junction Euston Road / York Way this Wednesday (26 October) at 6.30pm.

I’m really grateful that James took the initiative and think the installation of the bike could be a good opportunity to remember Min Joo Lee.

I’d really appreaciate if her friends and fellow cyclists showed up next Wednesday to commemorate the tragic death of Min Joo Lee.

http://cycling-intelligence.com/2011/10 ... n-joo-lee/

I work right close by to where this tragic accident took place, I noticed the ghost bike a few days ago. It is drawing a lot of attention, with many people taking photos of it. Ghost bikes seem to disappear after a short time and I wonder if it is embarrased local councils removing them? The one at the junction of Camley St and Goods Way only lasted a short time.

I was there on Wednesday evening.

And yesterday: