Cycling UK Forum

Hello,

Hubby and I are going to be cycling from the North Cape, starting the end of May. We would like to know if anyone has experience of using sleeping bag inserts, i.e. not just a normal silk or cotton liner, to increase the warmth of their bags. We are considering taking bags rated to 0 degrees (a Marmot Never Winter and a Vango Venom 300) and Sea to Summit Thermolite Reactor liners that are meant to give you another 8 degrees .

Does anyone have experience of these? Do they work? Or will we freeze our wobbly bits off?

Thanks.

Using 2 sleeping bags together is a well established method of increasing the rating of a bag in a flexible manner. The biggest trouble is that most bags are the same size. Putting such a bag inside another one, makes it very cramped, compresses the insulation excessively, so it doesn't give a straight 1+1 = 2 rating. Consider getting 2 cheap rectangular bags from Argos and throw them away as you cycle south away from North Cape.
Don't know about those liners you mention, but you could always make your own and you can then customise them, i.e. more warmth in foot section, none underneath where it is compressed etc.

Sorry, I've no experience of the items you mention although I do have experience of different sleeping systems in varying climates. PHD do a specific Combi-bag http://www.phdesigns.co.uk/sleepingbags.php?cat=26 that is the correct dimension to double up a sleeping bag. It is of course very expensive and I know you would have to consider future use etc.

A good sleeping bag liner and sufficient clothing worn at the same time should give you an extra 6 - 8 degrees of warmth - I have had to rely on that method on more than one occasion.

Sounds a good trip!

Ive got one of those Sea to Summit Thermolite Reactor liners - I would say the answer is no - it is excellent in that it is easy to wash and over a long period my main bag stayed reasonably sanitary - also found it to be very handy for really hot nights esp when I was wild camping sans tent in preventing excess numbers of insect bites

A thermal liner does make a big difference to the warmth. The other thing that helps is a sleeping bag cover. In winter I use one I have sewn together using Pertex material.
A space Blanket wrapped around the bag helps to stop draughts taking the warm air you have heated in the insulation, it does this by creating another area of still air. The thermal insulation from these foil blankets is negligible and they need to be used with insulation as well.
The down side is you have to be very careful about condensation.

The biggest area of heat loss will be to the ground and the insulation in the sleeping bag will be flattened by your weight. So a good thermal mat is essential.

Where are you going after leaving North Cape, if I may enquire ?

As to the sleeping bags, I do know that several fellows in my former workplace have been using fleece liners in their Nanok Igloos (-10Cish) and have been happy in temperatures down towards -25ish C. For myself, I prefer to "dress" for the night - out of the dry pack comes the sleeping set: wool socks, wool long johns, long sleeved wool T and a wool balaclava, if you see where I`m going.

I would be a little leary of the spaceblanket outer bag due to condensation as Edwards mentions.

What I do know that a lot of folks with rather good experience of staying outdoors for long periods under harsh circumstances, uses a proper vapour barrier inside the sleeping bags as a liner - you`ll get wet, but the bag stays dry, an important consideration in Polar areas if you have limited possibilities of drying the bag out. I never had the need to try this one myself as I for the most parts havent done anything longer than a forthnights worth of seriously roughing it.

I don't know those inserts.

Sadly, people vary widely, so a bag rating of X degrees Centigrade is only valid for some people. I'm a skinny softy, so when it gets below zero I need clothing, two bags, a mattress and a bivvy before I am cozy. Hardier folk can get away with less. I suggest experimentation rather than relying on manufacturers' ratings.

I have a Decathlon silk linet. Decathlon say it adds 5 degrees centigrade to the comfort rating - and I think tjat's probably right.

A silk liner is definitely worth buying. A fleece liner didn't seem to be much more effective.

I wouldn't get anything fancier than a silk linet: spend your money on a decent down gilet or jacket plus merino tights (Howies or Ground Effect) and an Icebreaker merino beanie.

British army all goretex bivvy sacs are around 50 pounds new, pack small and dont weigh much - adds 5 to 10 degrees of warmth (and will stop your down sleeping bag from wetting out). The rain can be diabolical in Norway and water will eventually pool somewhere on the tent floor- I cycled as far N as Lofoten Islands then went E into N Sweden - a lot drier and a bit cheaper...

Where are you going after leaving North Cape, if I may enquire ?

Hi Harry,

We will be carrying on down through Finland then through Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania (might have the order wrong), Poland, Slovakia, Hungary, Romania, Bulgaria and Turkey. It should keep us out of trouble for a while .....

Thanks everyone for your replies, it has given us a lot to go on.

Ok, just be somewhat prepared for snow in Norway and Finland, then.

Not necessarily actual snowing, but there can be remaining snow on the ground in the mountains (in huge amounts).

http://direct.tesco.com/q/R.202-9328.aspx

I've got one of these fleece liners from Tesco, although mine cost only £7 in-store last year. It's very effective at increasing the comfort level in cold weather.

Dont' expect too much from liners. For me, a down vest makes quite a difference, and adds flexiility. If you think you need more, bring a down duvet from home to put on top of both bags. Send it home by the time you reach southern Norway. And of course, make sure you have warm mattresses like Exped down mats.
Willem

I have a Rab 600 down sleeping bag - they don't make them now, superceeded by a newer model. They are expensive, but i think it is a fantastic sleeping bag. Used to 0c, but can go colder. Anyway, i use a silk liner , weighs 100g and packs small, if you haven't bought a bag yet and can afford a bag that goes to a lower temperature (remember its the comfort temperature you should look at) then you might want to do that, otherwise a down jacket/vest used inside the bag would be good for keeping you warm if you go for a lower temperature bag , plus you can use it as a jacket otherwise. If its a damp place you are going to, then a synthetic jacket might be better as can get wet and still insulate. I have a paramo torres jacket - really cosy, though heavier than a down equivalent. If you'r like me, you will take care of your down gear even if it's wet. good luck

willem jongman wrote:Dont' expect too much from liners. For me, a down vest makes quite a difference, and adds flexiility. If you think you need more, bring a down duvet from home to put on top of both bags. Send it home by the time you reach southern Norway. And of course, make sure you have warm mattresses like Exped down mats.
Willem

I use a Snugpak Thermalon liner that does warm things up a bit. However the main advantage is the cosy warmth next to the skin as opposed to the cold nylon or Pertex lining. In the cold there is just no substitute for more down in whatever form.

Don't expect a Standard Thermorest or the Exped Downmat to keep you properly insulated on frozen ground or snow, for me a thick closed cell mat is needed too.