Cycling UK Forum

Not wishing to hijack Mick's current debate elsewhere:

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=56418

I wondered what the thoughts are on where bar-end shifters compare with DT or STI's?

I use and like bar ends. I find that they give very precise and easy shifting in both indexed and (more usually) friction mode. All of the advantages of DTs are retained - ie easy maintenance, nothing to go wrong, and the position is very convenient on a touring bike. I've no reason to want to 'upgrade' to a more modern system.

How many sprockets? Can the be used with 10sp?

I run a seven speed which I find quite adequate. I think bar ends will run a ten-speed but possibly only in friction mode (same as with DTs).

For the previous four or five years I have exclusively had bikes with STI (actually the Capag equivalent), but I have recently (within the last six weeks) bought a bike with bar-end shifters and have been surprised by how quickly I have got used to them.

It does seem to change the way I ride a bit. I definately ride more on the drops than I do with STI, and I change gear a little less. The latter may also be a function of the type of bike as the STI equipped bike has close ratio gearing designed mainly for racing/time trialing on fairly flat terrain, and the new bike with bar-end shifters is a touring bike with wider ratios.

With the bar-end shifters, the changes are smooth and reliable and the change between chainrings is definitely easier than with STI.

I will definitely be sticking with STI for relatively short, fast paced training rides and time trialing. However, for fully/semi-loaded touring I do like the smoothness of the bar-end shifters, especially for the shifts between chainrings.

Mick F wrote:How many sprockets? Can the be used with 10sp?

I've answered my own question by looking at the Campag website. They do 10sp and 11sp bar ends, mainly aimed at the Tri fraternity. Last year's 10sp bar ends look the business!
http://www.ctcshop.org.uk/cycling/p/CTC ... 360019511/

I would certainly get rid of dt shifters and go onto bar end at least as they are super to use and much safer as hands are still on bars when changing gear. Shimano do a great dura ace bar end lever for the 9 speed and it works a treat.and is a lot cheaper than sti. I got a couple of these sets on e bay for around £30 instead of list at upwards of £75. I guess that sti levers are the best and safest, but they do cost a lot. So you pays your money and takes your choice.

one thing that barend shifters will give you is versatility, if you're that way inclined. As well as mounting them in the barend position you can also pair them with thumb mounts, or Kelly Takeoffs, to reposition them. I have the Dura Ace 9 speed ones and have used them with drops in traditional barend position and now with Pauls Thumbies on alternative bars. At present only the MTB 22.2mm diameter version comes with a hinged clamp but the road version should do soon as well. This would allow use of a wide variety of handlebar and easy removal/reinstallation of shifters. Another benefit is the ability to mix and match your gearing, expecially around front derailleurs.

STIs are lovely but do limit other options a little, if they suit then they are fantastic but also make for very expensive tinkering.

An issue which has raised itself recently among some of my cycling colleagues, who for various recent have decided they prefer not to use the STI (I think that's the term) gear changers integral with the brake levers, is that frames no longer have lugs for down-tube shifters unless you have a hand-built steel frame. Clamp-on levers won't fit the down tubes on alu, carbon or Titanium frames. The clamps for stem-fixed gear levers won't go around the stem - or steering column - on the A-Head stem system.

Bar end levers seem to be the only choice left. Those cyclists of my acquaintance who use bar-end levers like them and don't seem to have problems. They are better as friction rather than indexed, because number of sprockets on the freewheel/cassette can be varied without alarm, despondency or drama.

As for me - I have down-tube friction levers on braized on lugs on my latest (2006) steel Mercian and I switch wheels and 5-gear to 9-gear freewheels/cassettes without problems.

I've used 7, 8 and 9 speed bar ends and have recently converted one bike from bar ends to brifters (they were cheap and I wanted to see how they were).

Bar ends are great especially for long distance touring. Simple mechanicals and friction back up if things start going pear shaped. They are a bit vulnerable when being transported (airlines etc) so I always tape a short length of PVC pipe over the end of each handlebar/bar end shifter to rpotect them from errant baggage throwers.

The 'moving hands to change gear' argument sounds a bit too much like Shimano propaganda and a solution looking for a problem to me.....

groberts wrote:Not wishing to hijack Mick's current debate elsewhere:

I think that's run it's course.

If I were to advise someone or run my recent cycling life again, I wouldn't have spent the dosh on Ergos. Although I was out for a ride yesterday with my Ergos back in use and the DT levers put back in their box, and it was a treat to use Ergo again - it seems a great deal of expense to go to.

The look of DT levers is clean and classic - two attributes I love - and I believe bar ends to have the same good looks. Good looks - providing the cables are inside the bar tape all the way to the centre with "aero" brake cables too. I don't like the way bar ends are seen with the cables coming out near the bottom of the drops.

So my verdict is bar ends or DT levers for all the advantages already mentioned.

As I said, I've got the Ergos, so I'll use them.

Mick F wrote:

groberts wrote:Not wishing to hijack Mick's current debate elsewhere:

I think that's run it's course.

If I were to advise someone or run my recent cycling life again, I wouldn't have spent the dosh on Ergos. Although I was out for a ride yesterday with my Ergos back in use and the DT levers put back in their box, and it was a treat to use Ergo again - it seems a great deal of expense to go to.

The look of DT levers is clean and classic - two attributes I love - and I believe bar ends to have the same good looks. Good looks - providing the cables are inside the bar tape all the way to the centre with "aero" brake cables too. I don't like the way bar ends are seen with the cables coming out near the bottom of the drops.

So my verdict is bar ends or DT levers for all the advantages already mentioned.

As I said, I've got the Ergos, so I'll use them.

Mick - on another thread and on another subject, you said that we were singing from the same hymn-sheet. We still are. Absolutely. Except that I'll not be using 'Ergos' isn't STIs another term for the same thing?

Dumped the bar end shifters on my Galaxy and Shimergo'ed it with some Centaur Ergos - best thing I ever did to a bike apart from pumping the tyres up really hard. Now I can change gear easily going up hill and brake and change when going down.

JohnW wrote:Mick - on another thread and on another subject, you said that we were singing from the same hymn-sheet. We still are. Absolutely. Except that I'll not be using 'Ergos' isn't STIs another term for the same thing?

Nice to know we still agree!

STI stands for something - no doubt a Shimano person will say what it means. It's like calling all clipless pedals SPDs. SPD is another Shimano term, but there are many many other manufacturers of clipless pedals. I suppose all vacuum cleaners being called Hoovers is the same thing, but I bet James Dyson has something to say about that!

STI are different to Ergo. I understand that Shimano "invented" the idea of a combined brake and gear selector, but when Campag came in with them, they were very different.

Not least of the difference is that Ergo don't have "washing lines" as the gear cables are hidden under the bar tape with the brake cables. Also, the gear change in Ergo is more positive - though later versions in the lower groups have lost that to some degree.

Other differences are Ergo have a "paddle" to move rather than the brake lever. This means that you are more positive in braking whilst changing gear. ie a couple of fingers braking, and a finger to change gear.

I've been using bar end lever's for many years. Originally I had them on index but didn't like the clicking so reverted to friction. One advantage of friction is that an original 7 speed lever can be made to operate a 9 sp rear mech. I've never used STI so I can't comment.
Bill Best ( a good roadman sprinter) of the Orpington road club rigged a cut down pair of down tube levers inside his brake levers in the 50's in order to conceal his gear changing. They were a very neat job compared to whats on offer now.