Cycling UK Forum

Hi

I've recently bought at 58cm Surly Long Haul trucker, complete - I'm 6'3 but proportionately longer in the leg than in reach. I've tweaked it with a new front wheel (719 on SON hub), new brakes (SRAM levers, shimano CX70 canti's - their new cyclocross ones- and decent pads, and Nitto Noodles). The new bars and levers are because I couldn't get comfy on the stock set up on longer distances and didn't get on with the shape of the tektro levers.

I've also moved the saddle further forward and don't want to go any further with it. My problem is that it still feels a little reached out - my hands feel perfectly placed about 2cm behind the hoods. I don't feel comfortable staying on the hoods for much time, preferring to hold just forward of the bend in the bars.

Its currently got a 17 degree 110 mm stem and I like the height of the bars. I'm not sure whether the reach issue is due to a lack of flexibility in my lower back and will improve with time - ive not been on drops for a year or so - or if I should put a shorter stem on.

I want to bring the bars back about 2cm in reach. An 80mm stem at the same angle would achieve this but lower the bars and I don't want that.

By my calculations a 25 degree 90mm stem would be ideal but I can't find any in silver with a 26mm clamp - this shouldn't change the handling too much? I don't want to change the look of the bike with a black or heavily branded stem.

Any suggestions on fit or advice on where I could get this stem would be gratefully received.

Thanks

David

Hi Dave
I have my eye on those new Shimano cantis....should be more powerful than most if set up to best advantage? A photo would be useful, if you like!
2cm shorter stem won't change the handling at all....otherwise it would be much too twitchy with your hands "on the tops" , and it isn't.
Stems are a pain...the angle they quote is the angle between the stem and the steerer (I think!) so when the steerer is inclined at 72deg on the bike, the stem makes a different angle to the horizontal. To find stems, you just have to scan the web. SJSC have lots, so do Rose Versand. Don't forget you can easily get shims to put 26 bars in 31.8 stems.
Steerer extenders also are around, but my favourite BBB one is now hard to find.
Noodle bars are quite long reach (96mm?), DEDA RHM O2 bars are 75, for example, but also 31.8mm and black.
Or just ride it for a bit, you may well get used to a longer reach.

Hi

That's fantastic, thanks. I hadn't thought about shimming the stem, it certainly opens up a lot of options.

Very happy to do a photo if the brakes but I'm away at the moment so won't be able to until next week.

Good point about the head tube angle - I'll re do my sums taking this into account.

Cheers

David

Here is a site which lets you experiment to find the perfect stem for the reach you want.
Stem Comparison site

I use "Specialized" stems to customise the reach on my bikes.

Specialize make stems in varying lengths between 75 & 120mm. The clever thing with their "Comp Road Multi-Position Stems" is that they come with shims that fit around the steerer. Each shim gives you 2 different stem angles and with the ability to flip the stem upside down that gives up to 4 different stem angles. Each stem normally comes with more than one shim to give even more stem angles. You have to use the special top cap that comes supplied with the specialized stems and fit it the right way around.

To raise the stem you can within limits add more "1 1/8" steerer spacer rings" under the stem.

Unfortunately these stems only come in black alloy. You could paint them silver but it would be difficult to create chrome effect.

Hungry dave: I think I am right in saying that there is a 3 cm difference in effective top tube length between the equivalent size in a Galaxy and the LHT. This means that you have chosen a bike designed (i.e. not just proportional to size of bike) with a long top tube. Given what you have said about your proportions this may not have been the best choice. (Also, at 6'3" have you chosen the second smallest bike in their range? (See note below) - something is obviously not quite right here (who will ride the next three sizes up will be interesting to see).

I think that top tube length is a real problem as it is less easy to know what is "right" than for a seat tube. My guess here, if it helps, is that you are so tall for the bike if it is the size you say (even though it has a long TT) that it is your riding postion that needs to change (which it may do) and so you may be OK. I don't know what other people think about this.

Note: I think you have the 64 cm with the 58 cm real seat tube. However this actually gives an extra 4 cm on the top tube of the equivalent Galaxy. (I would be very happy if someone checked my figures.) This makes me think that although your riding position could change, the real problem is the top tube length which a new stem will only palliate.

Thanks

I don't have a picture to hand that I can share but looking at other setups on the web the seat post is not excessively extended.

There's a chance I have the 60 not 58 - again, away at the mo and cant check; i may have confused my numbers - but it definitely isn't bigger than 60. I probably have 6 or 7 inches of seat post showing.

Do bear in mind that the long haul trucker actually comes in 42cm, 46cm, etc all the way to 64cm, it's just that you can only get the 700c version in 56 to 64. I rounded up to 6'3"... I'm technically 6'2.5"!

I wonder if having a lay back seat post (stock) at the upper end of normal extension is pushing the saddle too far back and compounding things? Maybe a straight post would be better?

Buying a new frame is out of the question so suggestions, palliative or otherwise, would appreciated.

The advice around specialised stems is useful - I'll look at that.

hungrydave: couple of points:

1. Yes, you probably have the second size down from the top. Given your proportions, you've probably got IMV (I'm very open to other opinions on this) about 3 - 4 cm too much top tube compared to other bikes. I've checked the figures again but am open to correction.

2. The bad news is, as you say, you cannot get a new frame. The good news is that you can lose some of the stretch with a new stem and allow for some adjustment of riding position. I don't know why Surly do a long top tube though it will suit people with longer arms and torsos I presume.

3. As regards the layback seatpost, the frame range is from 73 to 72 so you could perhaps get a straight post as you are in the less upright part of the range. It is interesting that Surly, along with everyone else, feel that 75 (which is the steepest angle in the 26" range) is OK for some people but 72 is OK for others - same bike, different size. A layback seatpost is a good way to equalise this but not if they use the same seatpost across the range! However the danger of going down this route is that you will be trying to get the stretch right by adjusting the seat position when in fact it should (IMV) be the other way round - start with complete comfort at the saddle end then get the reach right.

Conclusion: a combination of shorter stem, adapting to the riding position and new seatpost could see you being really happy with the bike. OTOH if you still aren't happy in say 3 - 4 months, then you won't be the first person to have faced these problems. My own view is that bikes are relatively so cheap and a comfortable bike such a joy that even if you did change the frame, in a couple of years' time you would be very happy and put this down to experience. In fact I would say definitely make the smaller changes now even if it looks as though the frame is wrong so that at some point in the future you will really know your own needs and then you really will be able to get the right bike.

PS these are my opinions, not expert fact.

Pretty much agree with Horizon.
I set the saddle distance behind the pedals first (easy when you know exactly where you want it!) then adjust the reach.
But 2 or 3 cm too long reach isn't the end of the world, Dave can lose 2cm using a compact bar, he still has a 110mm stem and can lose some off that.
On a bike as stable as a LHT shortening the stem wont make the steering too quick....theres a thread on here with lots of LHTs with flat bars, even butterfly bars, which put your hands much further back.
I have been banging away on here too often about bike designers who seem to pick numbers out of the air for frame dimensions, using different angles for different sizes, so I won't go there again!
The LHT has a big fan club, loads of owners really rate them, on the face of it I don't see why Dave won't be able to get comfortable...it always takes me a few goes with a new bike, and all I'm trying to do is copy what I have already!

edit...if you use a handlebar bag, a short stem is an advantage....the longer the stem , the more effect the weight in the bag has on the steering

I can only echo what Colin and Horizon have already said,saddle to BB relationship is set in stone,once optimum is reached the bars are then positioned in relation to the saddle.
I'm puzzled as to why you chose Nitto Noddles if you're stuggling to reach the hoods the drop would seem out of the question as not only are they a long reach but a fairly deep drop too.
I'd take a look at compact drop bars with the existing stem or keep hunting for a shorter one.
BTW is there any steerer left above the stem? I fthere is then you may be able to find a shorter stem with less angle.

Thanks - i'll put the bar choice down to inexperience with tourers etc, I chose them on the basis of the good reports for their layout rather than really thinking about reach - they're certainly no worse than the stock bars so that's some comfort!

Regarding finding the optimal saddle position, what's the convention for this? I've been slowly moving mine (brooks b17) forward to find a better feeling position but havent based it in measurements - it feels more powerful for me and my preference is to spin more.

The odd thing is that most LHT users with this saddle seem to find themselves restricted in moving the saddle in the aft direction, whereas I'm as far fore as it will go - noting the rails are quite short and my LHT came with a lay back post.

It sounds like I need to start again on the set up, starting with saddle position and going from there. Tips on getting this right would be gratefully received.

Ta

Ps, no - no steerer left. Its as stock, with three spacers and the cable hanger below the stem.

Set the fore/aft position of the saddle in reference to the position of the pedal when its at the point of maximum foot pressure. This sound a little back-to front. Start with KOPS, and then tweak the saddle position back/forward until you produce the maximum power for a controlled heart rate.

"Reach" has nothing to do with saddle position. When seat position is ascertained, 'Reach' can be calculated.
'Reach' on the bike is calculated by the measurements of you Sternal Notch height, Leg length by the 'Sitting height ratio' method; and arm length.
It is measured from the centre Seat tube at the clamp to the handlebar surface closest to the saddle.

Height of the handlebars with relation to the saddle's top surface is also dependent on Torso and arm measurements and should result in the Lumbar Vertebrae being approx 45 degrees from the saddle top surface. This will place the perineum comfy on the saddle with no strain in the joint of the lowest Vertebrae and the Sacrum ( main cause of lower back pain ). The hands should hold the bars just behind the hood, NOT on the hoods.

A bike fitting service will sort you out.

I just love all those formulae, and the idea that theres some magic trick an expert can perform and you will be comfortable evermore!
KOPS is "knee over pedal spindle". You sit on the bike, put the pedals horizontal, drop a plumb line from your "front" knee, and it should point at the pedal spindle.
There is a thread here http://forum.ctc.org.uk/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=54588&hilit=zoom&start=45 where there are 3 of us doing it different ways, on the kneecap, 15mm behind the kneecap, anywhere you like really!

I'm the same height as the OP and ride a 60cm LHT fitted with a 90mm high angled stem with compact bars. I agree a slightly shorter stem and compact bars are worth trying. They should get the reach somewhere in the right zone.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/BBB-Stem-HighRi ... roduct_top