Cycling UK Forum

The Secretary of State for Education who holds the future of the nation in his hands:

hubgearfreak wrote:fair point, but if they have to do more than 37-40 hours in the weeks they do work, don't the extra holidays compensate?

From a stress point of view, no - term time is a burnout. Plus there's still work to do in the holidays, so it's not a full 12 free weeks (though yes, on balance, there's probably more holiday than the 5 weeks you or I get).

Also, it means you end up paying top whack to go on holiday at the worst time, ie when everywhere's rammed with other holidaymakers.

hubgearfreak wrote:

Edwards wrote:Some of those that are on strike are marking and doing the planning so that they do not have to do it at home on Sunday.

sunday, my bum'ole. my son goes to school between 9 and 3.15. for the rest of us to either start at 9 would mean finishing at 5, or to finish at 3.15 would mean starting at 7.15. thus there's two hours every day for them to do admin, let alone the week's holiday they get for every 2 days we have.

Where does this start at 9 and finish at 3.15 come from?

Charles (a local Maths teacher) works at the Samuel Whitbread school in Clifton. I see him on his bike on his way to school at 5 past 7 every morning. I see him cycling home from school any time after 4.45 every afternoon. He works from 7.15 to at least 4.30 every day. Not just now and then. Every day. And, as Edwards says, he has to bring work home and do school stuff in his own time. And he's involved in kid's clubs etc during the holidays (his own time - not paid overtime). He's not the only one.

A teacher's life is not all beer and skittles as some people seem to think.

stewartpratt wrote:Also, it means you end up paying top whack to go on holiday at the worst time

yep, just like those with children. those that can afford holidays at all, of course.

Guy951 wrote:Where does this start at 9 and finish at 3.15 come from?

it's when the children attend

hubgearfreak wrote:

Si wrote:In the case of the O level, then he has an inferior ability to those who have qualified as teachers thus they are better rewarded.
you cannot hold working teachers responsible for his not becoming one of them and not having the correct abilities to do the job.

it's as simple as that is it? then by the same token, why don't these teachers stop teaching and become executive directors of barclay's bank?

I've not noticed them criticising the holidays, pension, etc of the director of Barclay's Bank, they are merely demonstrating against the fact that they are being asked to work longer and for less money.

So, if you were asked to work longer and for less money would you happily do so, based upon the fact that there is someone in the country that has fewer holidays than you or earns less than you? Please send the excess money that you no longer want straight to me and I will find a good cause to spend it on.

hubgearfreak wrote:yep, just like those with children. those that can afford holidays at all, of course.

True (being picky, true for those with children aged 5-17) - it's not the most major thing, but your implication was that it was ok to spend all year burning yourself out on the basis that you can recharge your batteries in the summer. For most people that means getting away from it, and teachers (who, you imply, deserve the right to this annual recharge) have no choice but to pay the highest possible charges to do that.

hubgearfreak wrote:it's when the children attend

Which is almost irrelevant. It's like thinking a broadcaster only has to work the hours they're on air, or the crew of a ferry only do any work when the passengers get onto the ship, or (let's go for a toxic analogy) an MP only does any work when they're sitting on a bench in the House.

stewartpratt wrote:

hubgearfreak wrote:it's when the children attend

Which is almost irrelevant. It's like thinking a broadcaster only has to work the hours they're on air, or the crew of a ferry only do any work when the passengers get onto the ship, or (let's go for a toxic analogy) an MP only does any work when they're sitting on a bench in the House.

Or, indeed, going back to a previous comment, all those bone-idle soldiers who only work when they are shooting at people.

Given all the things that one could criticise teachers for, I think that some avenues followed by critics in this thread really are bordering on clutching at straws territory (if not well past the checkpoint and half way to the capital).

Si wrote:So, if you were asked to work longer and for less money would you happily do so, based upon the fact that there is someone in the country that has fewer holidays than you or earns less than you?

no what's got me started is that many parents are losing a holiday - or a days pay (not asked - forced) for them that earn more money and have more holiday

hubgearfreak wrote:i'm no tory- i've voted labour in every election there's been since i was 18 and am a member of a union. i understand the cause

hubgearfreak wrote:no what's got me started is that many parents are losing a holiday - or a days pay (not asked - forced) for them that earn more money and have more holiday

(That's funny. I'm sure I've just read these exact words in the comments bit of the Daily Wail on-line. )

That's unfortunate, but why should Public and Civil Servants roll over and let the gubmint shaft them over pay and conditions just because others don't get the *same as them?

The government are trying to force through drastic, and largely unnecessary, changes to contracted terms and conditions of service, and you think **we should all just roll over and let them do it?

*and from where I'm sitting the prospect of having to pay triple contributions for an extra seven years to end up with a smaller pension isn't something I really want to happen.

**It's not just teachers who are in dispute with the lords of mis-rule.

hubgearfreak wrote:

Si wrote:So, if you were asked to work longer and for less money would you happily do so, based upon the fact that there is someone in the country that has fewer holidays than you or earns less than you?

no what's got me started is that many parents are losing a holiday - or a days pay (not asked - forced) for them that earn more money and have more holiday

So school is just a child care service after al then?

Don't want the expense and hassle of looking after your kids - don't have kids, your choice!

What's that you say? When making the decision to have kids you assumed that teachers would always be there to teach? Yes, just like when becoming a teacher, teachers assumed that they wouldn't see a sustained attack on both their benefits and their working conditions.

hubgearfreak wrote:- - i'm no tory- i've voted labour in every election there's been since i was 18 and am a member of a union. i understand the cause.

Don't worry mate, it happens to a lot of people as they get older. Next sign to watch for is buying the Daily Mail. Then you'll vote Tory

Si wrote:

hubgearfreak wrote:
perhaps not. he could be good with children, intelligent, concientious and all the rest of it. but no english 'O' level, or a minor crime on a drunken night out as a student = no chance

In the case of the O level, then he has an inferior ability to those who have qualified as teachers thus they are better rewarded.
As for the crime - it would have been his choice to commit the crime.

I

Have you any evidence that someone without an O level in English has "inferior ability to those who have qualified as teachers"? Are you just making a sweeping statement or are you deluded enough to believe that a single examination taken on 1 day at 16 years of age really does indicate inferiority or superiority of ability?

Si wrote:Given all the things that one could criticise teachers for, I think that some avenues followed by critics in this thread really are bordering on clutching at straws territory (if not well past the checkpoint and half way to the capital).

Quite!

hubgearfreak wrote:no what's got me started is that many parents are losing a holiday - or a days pay (not asked - forced) for them that earn more money and have more holiday

Hubbers
You're begining to sound like a Tory


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