Winter camping gear & photos.

[phil parker]

Oh, sorry to butt in on the OP's thread - perhaps I should contribute then?

OK, as I come from both a mountaineering background as well as a cycle-touring background, I will try and keep it to what I would take on a cycle tour.

Tent: Hilleberg Akto (thinking of getting a Soulo) & Nallo 2 GT - with footprints
Mat: Exped downmat 7 (hand pump) & Neoair (I second PedalSheep's use of an extra mat beneath in winter)
Sleeping bag: various - PHD Minim 400; Rab Hydrogen (& various mountaineering down sleeping bags) - with silk liner
Stove: MSR Snowpeak Ti; MSR Dragonfly; Jetboil - (gas is better for short tours and temperate (UK) winter)
Various Pots including Ti non-stick, but may get the Trakker Armolife 3-pan system for being cheap and robust & more expendable
Lamp: TRAKKER ARMO LIFE MXP - this will warm up the tent in no time without wasting gas (short time only required)
Headtorch: Petzl LED
Additional clothing: PHD Down Trousers & Pullover etc. very lightweight and compact (and warm)

[martin113]

I also fancy doing a bit of winter camping and am planning to go away in early January. My sleeping bag is not winter grade so I might put it inside a bivvy bag. I have a plastic survival bag from years ago. Question: if I sleep in a down bag inside a plastic survival bag will the condensation inside the survival bag from my own body make the down in the sleeping bag go soggy and therefore ineffective and wet in the morning? Any one tried it?

[rapidfire72]

Yes, the plastic survival bag will cause a lot of condensation inside and not recommended for down bags. I used to do dog training with the Cleveland Search and Rescue up on the North Yorkshire Moors in the winter months and used a orange survival bag and came out wet with the condensation, not good.

Best off, getting a ex-army gore-tex bivi bag and then use a down bag with that.

[martin113]

Is a gore tex bivvy bag breathable enough to keep the condensation away? Can anyone recommend a good lightweight outer bag or bivvy bag to increase the warmth of my three season?

[phil parker]

Is a gore tex bivvy bag breathable enough to keep the condensation away? Can anyone recommend a good lightweight outer bag or bivvy bag to increase the warmth of my three season?

Yes, a Gore-Tex bivi bag is breathable enough to keep the condensation away providing there is still some kind of ventilation within the tent. Gore-Tex and any other breathable fabric relies upon an internal-external 'differential' of climate to allow wicking of moisture (my own words not advertising!).

Within a tent, you won't get an extra season out of your sleeping bag (i.e. 2 season rating to become 3-season or 3 to become 4 etc.) by using a bivi bag. A good liner and additional clothing can get you an extra 5 degrees of comfort. The tent's rating will also make a difference. If the inner is mesh or has a large area of mesh - forget it. You need a 4 or 5-season rated tent when you get below zero to reduce the dissipation of heat from the tent. It also helps to have a tent of a smaller internal volume to retain warmth. My old triangular shaped 5-season Phoenix Phortress was excellent for retaining heat, but even though it was a good two-man tent the volume was very small because of the shape.

I have slept in the open using a Gore-Tex bivi bag as a liner to my sleeping bag and that helps prevent the wind wick away the warmth, but still allows the wind to wick away moisture and 'effectively' gives additional warmth. However, I don't think you will gain enough within a tent during a UK winter - and a 3-season (-5 rated) will not be sufficient for a cold January in UK.

[alicej]

Is it effective, and would you have room, to just take a second lightweight sleeping bag to use inside the first?

[pedalsheep]

AliceJ wrote

Is it effective, and would you have room, to just take a second lightweight sleeping bag to use inside the first?

It works very well if the inner bag is smaller than the outside one.Years ago I used a Mountain Equipment Dewline (very narrow) inside a Mountain Equipment Green Dragon (quite wide) for a months trekking in the Himalayas and was very toasty. Its a very bulky set up though. PHD do a combi bag which can be used over their regular bags to increase the warmth. I've never used it but expect, like all PHD gear, its excellent but expensive.

[phil parker]

Is it effective, and would you have room, to just take a second lightweight sleeping bag to use inside the first?

Most down sleeping bags also rely on trapped air within baffles and the shape of bag to be expanded as well as the content of the filling, for warmth, so it would have to be a good fit or specific design (as Pedalsheep mentions) to work well.

[bikeabout]

Much of what to take depends on your style and how long you intend to go for. If you have any specific questions please ask.

Some general thoughts
Cheap foam mat with thermarest works really well for me, never tried a down mat, heard they are good though.
Silver space blanket is a cheap way to help insulate from the ground
Waterbladers on your back help stop water freezing, blow back water to stop water in pipe freezing.
Put water in pans overnight so you can melt easy in the morning
Eat lots to keep warm
Due to the location of my winter touring i have only used low grade petorl in MSR whipserlight international, works fine so long as cleaned often.
I find gas does not work so well at cold temerature.
I put a down jacket on as soon as i stop, assuming its not wet, your body heat warms up the jacket. If you wait till you ahve cooled down might have to go for a jog or do some situps to get warm again.
Sleeping bags really depend on how much you have eaton and you personally, i try and wear a little as possible in the sleeping bag as your body is the thing that heats it. I am quite happy in a RAB quantum 600 down to -10 with silk liner more than that i will use bivi bag and or second sleeping bag.
Andy Kirkpatrick has some very good info on sleeping bags and keeping warm - http://www.andy-kirkpatrick.com/articles/gear/
Some photos of winter cycling in China here http://www.flickr.com/photos/30039940@N03/sets/72157625975441925/

Have fun

[pedalsheep]

Just spent about one and a half hours looking at bikeabout's website and also the Andy Kirkpatrick gear reviews that he recommended.
Excellent stuff, well worth a look.

[phil parker]

I shall enjoy having a read then...

I have met Andy Kirkpatrick - he is a nutter, in the nicest sense of the word! A very funny man if you can get to see one of his lecture shows or read one of his books. I think after reading Psychovertical I placed it in my top 5 books I've ever read: funny, inspirational and moving - one I could definitely recommend to non-climbers as it covers a range of emotional issues in the same way that The Flying Scotsman isn't just for cyclists!

[John in Leeds]

Lots of interesting stuff here so a couple of personal observations

My Exped Downmat experience says that insulation performance is reduced unless fully inflated. Then it is nowhere near as comfortable. In winter now I always use a Multimat underneath.

I also reckon that the worst weather for lightweight camping is point of freezing temperatures with rain. Eventually all your kit gets wet and unless you get some access to drying facilities the venture becomes hardly worth going on. Below freezing however with less humidity it is far easier to keep your kit dry, body heat being enough to keep everything comfortable.

Good ventilation of your tent is particularly important as condensation can soon dampen your sleeping bag and unprotected clothing. My Akto although thought of as a Roll Royce for solo camping is particularly poor for condensation. Seems everyone has different experiences so always test kit before you have to rely on it - often it doesn't do what it says on the tin.

[bikeabout]

I forgot the following,
Pee botle, no need to leave the tent.
Down socks, love theses.
Thermos flast, instant brew..

[bikeabout]

Just spent about one and a half hours looking at bikeabout's website and also the Andy Kirkpatrick gear reviews that he recommended.
Excellent stuff, well worth a look.

Thanks!

[willem jongman]

A nice down summer duvet from home can be a good addition to a sleeping bag that is too cold. If you have one, extending your temperature range will cost you nothing. It will not be as light and compact as a proper winter bag, but for occasional use it may do the job.
Willem