Cycling UK Forum

So true.

Cllr David Edwards wrote:“If somebody does knock somebody off and kills them, they will have to live with that,” he said, “whether it’s their fault or not.

“It probably will not be their fault because the cyclist will have been on the road.”

(http://www.bognor.co.uk/news/local/cycl ... _1_3300300)

.

Is there a design which does actually work for everyone? What design do people prefer?

alicej wrote:Is there a design which does actually work for everyone? What design do people prefer?

No. Motorcycles are similarly sized to bikes - smaller in some dimensions than trikes, recumbents and tandems, so anything that physically prevents their access will also block legitimate users.

Possibly we are being a little to obsessive about motor bikes ...possibly the number of unlicenced, uninsured who want to ride on canal banks is fairly low... maybe the solution is worse than the problem ??????

Is there any other potential solution we should be campaigning for? How about if temporary barriers were put up - promptly - in places where there's a current persistent problem with motorbikes, then automatically removed six months later to see if the problem comes back or not?

I'm a volunteer ranger for Sustrans and I HATE the barriers that exist. I can see the sense in having a physical barrier to prevent car access [they've started using bridleways as rat runs now] but motorcycles? The only PTWs that are going to use sustrans routes are off-road bikes. And by definition they can go off-road and access the Sustrans route anywhere along its length. The barriers merely serve to frsutrate cyclists.

Solution? Use the 'parallell bars' system I came across on the French 'Voies Vertes' - their network of former railway lines converted to cycle/walker/horse routes. At each road intersection there existed two horizontal poles, about 6" diameter and 6 feet long, across the width of the Voie Verte, suppoerted at each end on a similar pole 3 feet high. They were padlocked so that they could be removed for emergency vehicle access. They were parallel, but staggered, forming a chicane. We were riding a tandem plus trailer and once I'd got the hang of the design, we could ride slowly through them. And the design was consistent, so that once you'd done it once, you knew you could get through all of them. I didn't see a single PTW on them all the time we were there. What a refreshing change from the bizarre collection of man-made obstacles that exist on our Sustrans routes.

alicej + 1
... Now that sounds like a good idea ...!!!

It's hard to see how a wheelchair user wouldn't have a very good case in law for arguing they were being discriminated against by being denied access by current barriers. Pity no law exists to prevent discrimination against cyclists with panniers, or I'd take it on myself.

The problem is that it's one level of govt trying to sort out a problem caused by another level of govt. The little noisy motorbikes should be banned.

THE LITTLE NOISY MOTORBIKES, ARE BANNED ... from being used ...not being sold ...thats the problem ...

The reason the motorbikers are attracted to these routes in the first place is because they are looking for a rough off-road experience - the very design features that make Sustrans routes so useless for cyclists. When cyclepaths have decent surfaces they rarely need access controls; any motorcyclist who wants to ride along a wide, smooth tarmac surface has plenty of roads to choose from.

Actually to be fair to sustrans and other path builders, as has been said, it seems very difficult to come up with a solution that will keep out motorbikes but let in all pedal bikes.

The best solution that I've seen is in my local bit of off road cycle path through a park. Used to get loads of kids on all sorts of motorbikes there. Now we hardly get any, yet I can get any of my bikes onto the track. The solution - regular patrols by bike riding police officers or PCSOs. You might ask how a plod on a bike can catch a motorcycle, as cycling police all seem to pootle along so slowly, believe me, when they want to the ones round here can do some speed, I've seen them chase down a motorcycle before now with a bit of team work and intelligent riding.

Si wrote:Actually to be fair to sustrans and other path builders, as has been said, it seems very difficult to come up with a solution that will keep out motorbikes but let in all pedal bikes.....

I have heard it reported that the Kirklees Greenway (and JohnW uses it more than I ever did) suffered a lot from anti-social motorcycling. Of course, this isn't motorcycling at all, it's just that uninsured, clapped-out unidentifiable mopeds etc., can provide a bit of excitement making a break from smashing bus shelters etc.

West Yorkshire Police has, or did have, a few scrambling bikes, for dealing with off-road problems exactly like this. I don't suppose it ever goes away, but a few random visits by motorcycling enthusiasts who are also police officers acts as a deterrent. (In this case my informant was an MP so it's not first-hand from me.)

Motorcycles on cycle paths are an enforcement issue, NOT an access control issue. It is impossible to keep them out without also keeping out legitimate users. Even if some sort of barrier system could be implemented, there are usually too many places to access a path for barriers to be effective. Shall we fence in 15 miles of cycle track?

The solutions are:
1) well-used cycle path
2) co-operation between police and legitimate users to patrol & report illegal use, including cycling officers & the like (or as TC said)
3) the police actually investigating to determine who the motorcyclists are (it is usualy just a handful of repeat offenders, rather than a large & diverse group)
4) the police using powers to seize and crush motorbikes ridden off road illegally
5) other alternatives for motocyclists to ride off-road legally (BOAT routes or an off road track/park)

Most of the time when these things are installed, it is simply as an easy way to look like something is being done when people have complained about illegal motorcycling. Some of the ones around me have been installed at the request of the police.