Saddle height again

[Mick F]

Sorry, couldn't resist the dig.

It is a basic fact of human anatomy that we're all differently proportioned. I'm very lucky in that I'm Mr Average. I can buy off the peg clothes, my feet are both the same size, and my inside leg is proportional to my overall height. My arms are proportionally correct for my upper body and my shoulders are too.

Not everybody is so lucky.

As I'm Mr Average, I'm comfortable with the straight leg with the heel on the pedal, and my fingers just touch the 'bars. I have shrunk a bit as I've become older, but other than tilting my bars a bit, the bike fits me now as well as its ever done. As I've said before, I adjusted my bikes in the past without any knowledge of rules of thumb, but I ended up sort of a perfect fit for the rules of thumb.

As I said, not everybody is so lucky, so we must remember that a good bike fit for one person is sheer agony for another.

[reohn2]

Ayesha
I'm sure a chap of your not inconsiderable experience will sus it in a very short while/miles,or come to the conclusion that the saddle isn't suited to your saddle interface

On the contrary.............

I don't think you are being contrary but rather that you agreed with me in the you sussed out the saddle position by ride and feel in not too many miles.

[PW]

Mick's got it right in that all these "Rule of thumb" set-up guides are a good starting place. Set it up with heel on pedal, K.O.P.S, elbow +4 fingers to the bars etc and work from there. It's unlikely to be spot on first time but only alter one thing at once and do it in small increments. You'll get there and it won't hurt!

[Ayesha]

Its done now. Everything is sweet.

I rode 100 miles in four days and got a result.

Its just the result meant that Spa Cycles missed a £56 sale.

The 'little project' also showed that 'Static' setting of saddle position is NOT precise.
You'll all agree that the text book methods only put the saddle somewhere where the rider can ride the bike, and 'dynamic' tests should be done to fine tune the position.

Something else that came out of my 'little project' was that initial testing can be more worthwhile if padded shorts are not worn. Intermediate results are confirmed earlier and if a spanner is taken on the preliminary tests, fine tuning is far quicker.

[531colin]

........................Being a 'lazy' ride bike with a shallow seat angle, I set the Fore/Aft to KOPS where the very front of the Knee is over the pedal spindle ( about 1/4" forward of the tibial tuberosity, with a gent's saddle ). Now KOPS is above the tibial tuberosity as per a more upright seat tube sports bike.

What is the general rule/feeling about this KOPS business?
On all my bikes, with riding position obtained by fiddling about until I'm comfortable, if I hold a plumb line in the dent between the knee cap and the tibial tuberosity (the little knob on the top of the shin bone), cranks horizontal, then the weight points pretty much at the pedal spindle.
But I have heard of people using the front of the knee cap as the reference point, or the "middle" of the knee, wherever that may be!
I've always thought I like to sit fairly well behind the pedals, rather than on top of the pedals.....what does everybody else do?

[[XAP]Bob]

........................Being a 'lazy' ride bike with a shallow seat angle, I set the Fore/Aft to KOPS where the very front of the Knee is over the pedal spindle ( about 1/4" forward of the tibial tuberosity, with a gent's saddle ). Now KOPS is above the tibial tuberosity as per a more upright seat tube sports bike.

What is the general rule/feeling about this KOPS business?
On all my bikes, with riding position obtained by fiddling about until I'm comfortable, if I hold a plumb line in the dent between the knee cap and the tibial tuberosity (the little knob on the top of the shin bone), cranks horizontal, then the weight points pretty much at the pedal spindle.
But I have heard of people using the front of the knee cap as the reference point, or the "middle" of the knee, wherever that may be!
I've always thought I like to sit fairly well behind the pedals, rather than on top of the pedals.....what does everybody else do?

Comfy seat well behind the pedals

Or whatever my hack bike came with - never really played around with it... Maybe I'm Mr average too

[Mick F]

I've always thought I like to sit fairly well behind the pedals, rather than on top of the pedals.....what does everybody else do?

Difficult to say, but the nose of my saddle is 2" behind the BB.

And I'm comfy!

[Mick F]

PS
I drive the Community Bus a couple of times a month, and sometimes it would appear that a bug-eyed gorilla was driving it last!

The seat is right back as far as it will go, the back is vertical, but the mirrors are aligned correctly for me. How can someone want to drive in that position but still have his eyes in the correct place?

Some people have strange physiology.

[PW]

As I said above Colin, I treat it as a starting point and adjust SLOWLY from there, so +- half an inch doesn't matter. Once the main set-up is comfortable I have another method. All my bikes are set up to the same measurements of the triangle made by the centre of the B/B, the centre of the stem bolt and the top of the saddle above the centre of the seatpin. Then I can rotate that triangle, slightly back for the tourer or slightly forwards for the 953. Tourer for long range comfort, the fun bike for a bit more get up'n go. Note I said SLIGHTLY!! Large changes are usually painful!

[niggle]

PS
I drive the Community Bus a couple of times a month, and sometimes it would appear that a bug-eyed gorilla was driving it last!

The seat is right back as far as it will go, the back is vertical, but the mirrors are aligned correctly for me. How can someone want to drive in that position but still have his eyes in the correct place?

Some people have strange physiology.

I drive a 'pool' car at work and have made similar observations. My theory is that is that some people do not bother to adjust the mirrors, but this is unimportant as they never use them anyway

[Audax67]

Couple of weeks ago I did an afternoon ride with a new Brooks, thinking I'd adjust en route. Height was OK, but only after dark did I realize that I had my pelvis swivelled back excessively because the nose was canted up too far and was compressing things it oughtn't. I didn't want to start fiddling with Allen keys in the dark with frozen fingers, so apart from a few stints standing on the pedals I rode most of the way home like that.

Result: lower back pain ever since.

[AlanD]

Since we are talking about saddle heights, I'm having an issue with the rear saddle height on my Dawes Galaxy Twin tandem.
The seat post is a sprung model, supporting a nondiscript upholstered ladies saddle. Im guessing that with the poor condition of the roads, that seatpost has saved from discomfort on many occasions. Out on a recent ride, another rider commented that they thought the saddle to be a little bit low. So we freewheeled a bit whilst MrsD2B adjusted positition to put heels on pedals and we brought each pedal in turn to the furthest away point. Sure enough, there was still a bend at the knees, so I made a mental note to raise the saddle by a tad.
Raising it by about 1cm later, MrsD2B then complained that she could not mount, because now the saddle was too high. Clearly there was some difference between the laden and unladen height of saddle, thanks to the suspension in the seatpost being compressed.
Is there a solution to this problem, or is it just one of those things we have to learn to live with?

[531colin]

A mounting block?

..............sorry, couldn't resist.

On a more practical note, when my kids were at the kiddie crank stage, and obviously much too little to mount normally, I would stand astride the crossbar and hold the tandem up while they clambered on board. If you held the bike, she could use the pedal as a step, then when she is seated, you can shift up onto the saddle or just start off?

[Mick F]

Similar problem for the "shorter lady".

I have tried no end of times to get Mrs Mick F onto a higher saddle position so her legs are straight when on her heels. When I get it right, she complains that she can't get on and off very well and when seated, she can't touch the ground! I've given in - of course - and she has the saddle "too low", but at least she's happy.

I put it down to the fact that smaller frames and smaller people need a BB nearer the ground than the standard frame. No doubt Mrs Mick F needs shorter cranks too, but as she doesn't ride much, none of this a big problem.

[CREPELLO]

Since we are talking about saddle heights, I'm having an issue with the rear saddle height on my Dawes Galaxy Twin tandem.
The seat post is a sprung model, supporting a nondiscript upholstered ladies saddle. Im guessing that with the poor condition of the roads, that seatpost has saved from discomfort on many occasions. Out on a recent ride, another rider commented that they thought the saddle to be a little bit low. So we freewheeled a bit whilst MrsD2B adjusted positition to put heels on pedals and we brought each pedal in turn to the furthest away point. Sure enough, there was still a bend at the knees, so I made a mental note to raise the saddle by a tad.
Raising it by about 1cm later, MrsD2B then complained that she could not mount, because now the saddle was too high. Clearly there was some difference between the laden and unladen height of saddle, thanks to the suspension in the seatpost being compressed.
Is there a solution to this problem, or is it just one of those things we have to learn to live with?

Does the seat post have a spring tension adjuster at the end of the post (Inside the frame)? If it does, you tighten it to firm the spring up. This will give less suspension, but will sag less. It should still take the sting out of the worst bumps though.