Cycling UK Forum

OK, so I'll inherit some money soon and I want to get a new bike - new to me that is, I'd prefer secondhand if I can find the right one (although feel free to recommend new).

I get backache if I have to lean forwards much so I want a shorter women's frame, BUT there's just nowhere to mount the big D lock I use if the top tube is dropped like it is on most women's frames, so I'd really like one with a reasonably horizontal top tube.

I'll be using it for carting stuff around in panniers a lot and towing a trailer, plus some UK touring (camping) and just generally getting about, so I guess a hybrid.

Flat bars of course because I won't want to bend over onto drops.

I've sat on a couple of 17" frames and that seems like about the right size although of course different brands size differently. 17" is 43cm, which ebay doesn't have a category for, which seems a bit odd. Am I missing something here? Are bikes bigger in cm?

I'll need something with seat stay/chain stay strong enough to handle the trailer hitch and a kick stand on the left side, which gets used a lot.

My current gearing suits me and is a 28-38-48 triple and 6 sprockets at the back which I can't remember the numbers of, but I guess I'm likely to end up with one or two more so shouldn't matter too much.

I want 700c wheels although I'm not sure my reasons are particularly sensible (26" ones look too small!) - do 26" (hybrid) bikes have lower bottom brackets?

Price range is hard to say because it does depend on what I'd get for my money, but it doesn't seem worth spending £1000 for what I use it for, and given the likelihood of it one day getting stolen. I doubt there's much worth buying new for less than about £300, but do point me at anything secondhand that looks like it might do. I'd be happy to do some work on the right bike so not put off by a bike with the wrong handlebars or whatever, but I'd really like not to have to buy another bike for a very long time!

Don't think I need disc brakes, carbon bits, ergonomic grips, fancy saddles, aero anything, or any type of suspension. Might be worth having an extra strong back wheel. With a dyno hub. But that's probably a separate upgrade thread for later...

The first LBS I tried recommended the Specialized Vita, and someone is selling the "upgrade" version the Vita Elite here http://www.gumtree.com/p/for-sale/speci ... 1/93188593 (have contacted seller and it has 700c wheels, not 26" as listed). Should I go for that? Anyone think it looks nicked? Will I have to wear lycra to go with the carbon forks?

Your suggestions please!

A couple of things strike me.
A 17inch top tube is very small if you could find one it may well not be able to take 700c wheels.
As for E Bay nearly always it will group frames on seat tube size not head tube.
You might have to get a frame built to your requirements,Bob Jackson ,Roberts ect.
Charlie the Bike Monger is selling a nice front bag rack and bag that has a slot for carrying a D lock.Looks a neat arrangement.Much better then putting it on the frame.

Alice, how tall are you?
17" or 43cm is tiny, and is that the seat tube or top tube length? (just for comparison, I'm 5'10" and 54cm fits me with modern sloping top tube designs)
For small bikes, its much better to use small wheels, ie 26". Just think about it, you want a short reach to the bars, but you don't want to kick the front mudguard........everything else being equal, small front wheel gives shorter reach.
This is the closest we could get to bike sizing by "remote control"....http://www.spacycles.co.uk/info/bikesizing.php
This is the 54 set up for me to ride 5'10" tall, 31" trouser, about 33" crotch to floor http://www.spacycles.co.uk/smsimg/uploads/tourer/5434tourer.jpg

Malpas wrote:A couple of things strike me.
A 17inch top tube is very small if you could find one it may well not be able to take 700c wheels.
As for E Bay nearly always it will group frames on seat tube size not head tube.
You might have to get a frame built to your requirements,Bob Jackson ,Roberts ect.
Charlie the Bike Monger is selling a nice front bag rack and bag that has a slot for carrying a D lock.Looks a neat arrangement.Much better then putting it on the frame.

Sorry, my abbreviation in the title might have been confusing. I meant a 17" frame as in a 17" seat tube, as bikes are normally measured. Don't know how long that would make the top tube, but I think most bikes made for women should probably get the proportions about right.

If that Vita Elite isn't nicked, it's a bargain, and I think you should snap it up. At that price, you have plenty of change to replace anything not to your taste or broken. It's a 2011 model so not more than 13 months old.

The Vita is a good suggestion (I'm guessing it was Andy or Tim who showed you it?) for your use. The 17" is a medium with a 55cm effective top tube and a short stem (http://www.specialized.com/gb/gb/bc/SBC ... Multi+Use+) so it gives a more upright ride than many hybrids. It has room for decent width tyres, and is strong enough for bridlepaths etc without being weighed down by unnecessary suspension. You won't get a more upright ride unless you go for a traditional-style roadster like a Pashley, and that isn't ideal for the hills and longer day rides (great for York, not so great for Leeds) It will happily take rack and mudguards (it's our most popular women's commuter by a distance) and although I haven't fitted one, it should be as trailer-compatible as any modern hybrid.

The Eite is probably the best spec level for your use; the higher end ones are racier with higher gearing etc. It's Shimano's trekking gearing (48/38/28 triple and 11-32 mountain cassette), so it has a bottom gear of 23" which will cope even loaded uphill around here. The carbon fork with the zertz inserts should soak up the bumps better than the fork on the lower-spec versions. The Elite, like the more expensive models has skinnier tyres (28s) than the entry level ones but there is no reason you can't fit wider tyres to the carbon-forked model.

The 2012 Elite has has lower level equipment (e.g. Alivio, not Deore rear mech) and the price has gone up to £600, which makes the Gumtree one a better deal. And if it turns out not to suit you but is mechanically sound, I expect you could resell it very quickly without losing any money.

Consider having a bike fit session, if you feel your body/bike fit requirements are a little different because of your back. Even if you don't have a bespoke frame built, you will have the ideal frame numbers to compare to any purchase you may make.

I think you should buy a frame only if you can as it sounds like you like tinkering with bikes. And we can always help if you want advice on the best bits to fit

Remember that smaller frame sizes have a nasty habit of incorporating steeper seat tube angles than is suitable for the type of bike. This will give the impression of a nice short top tube, but in reality they will position you over the pedals at the same position as a racing bike. I don't know about the back, but it makes for tired wrists as more weight is placed on them.

Related to the above, because of the small frame size you may choose, seriously consider the 26" wheel size - this should avoid toe overlap, which can be really nasty if you're not prepared for it.

Perhaps somebody can clarify this, but I think that frames built for drop bars may tend to have shorter top tubes than say MTB frames, designed for flat bars. Thorn certainly market short and long top tube in their Club Tour frames - the long version being more for flat bars. But in your case, the short TT version would be a better bet. Tourers typically shouldn't be as 'long' in the TT as some other frame types.

17" seat tube isn't small . How tall are you? Frame design can help no end. Some bikes are made for uprigt positions, some are not. A quick squint at a brochure will shown shome with bars wigher than the seat , a lot differnt than many bikes. This will give you an upright position. If you do go small abandon 700c wheels, they give silly frame andgles and toe clip overlap on small frames. The latter may not be an issue as small people often equal small feet and bit bit of overlap isn't an isuue.
i would do some checking of measurements as WSD is usally applied to dropped bar bikes. Womens hybrids are more obviusly designed for women ie dropped top tubes in many cases.
You say you are not sitting on seat bones. Just how are you sitting.
To be honest , unless you are really small, say 5' nowt or below its houldn't be too hard to find a bike to fit.
Why not try Islabikes. Isla specialises in bike for the smaller person
Finally if yo are not small Why do I assume you are? but your back aches , how about spending some money on that instead?

Thanks for the advice all!

I'm not actually small, I'm about 5' 7", which is where I have the problem I guess because it's difficult to get the short reach I need for my back given the long seatpost I need for my legs.

I've arranged to have a look at that Vita Elite on Sunday. How can I tell if it's nicked?

If I were you I'd visit a framebuilder (my recommendation would be Dave Yates but of course there are many others) and have a frame made to fit you and your riding style, then fit the bits from your present bike. You'll be able to specify as strong a rear triangle as you like and even have braze-ons for a kickstand and a trailer hitch if you want them, as well as whatever ratty tealeaf-deterring paint job you want (I suggest Hammerite applied with a broom).

alicej wrote:Thanks for the advice all!

I'm not actually small, I'm about 5' 7", which is where I have the problem I guess because it's difficult to get the short reach I need for my back given the long seatpost I need for my legs.

I've arranged to have a look at that Vita Elite on Sunday. How can I tell if it's nicked?

Ask for proof of purchase. If they don't have it, then odds are they didn't buy it.

AndyA wrote:

alicej wrote:Thanks for the advice all!

I'm not actually small, I'm about 5' 7", which is where I have the problem I guess because it's difficult to get the short reach I need for my back given the long seatpost I need for my legs.

I've arranged to have a look at that Vita Elite on Sunday. How can I tell if it's nicked?

Ask for proof of purchase. If they don't have it, then odds are they didn't buy it.

Yeah right, especially for such a new bike.

I have deduced that you are referring to 17" seat tube as per a mountain bike, which would equate to about 21" for a standard horizontal framed road bike? This would also make sense being that you are 5' 7".

Given that you have had some problems with comfort in the past - this is a no-brainer so far as advice is concerned...and that is to get properly measured for frame size, which needn't be custom built when completed - it could be a stock frame adjusted with stem size and seat post size to fit. You have previously mentioned WSD frames, which generally consider the fact on average a female has a shorter torso to legs ratio: but you also mention lower back problems, which could be a result of leaning forward/too low as well. When being professionally fitted for a bike frame, all anatomical idiosyncrasies are taken into account as well as flexibility and previous injuries with subsequent limitations.

So, my only advice is short list whether or not you are going to go custom-build i.e. Roberts etc. or stock frame: and then decide how much you wish to spend on a professional fitting session. Some of which can be £200, but that price will be deducted from the purchase of a frame from said retailer - and you will never look back!

alicej wrote:Thanks for the advice all!

I'm not actually small, I'm about 5' 7", which is where I have the problem I guess because it's difficult to get the short reach I need for my back given the long seatpost I need for my legs.

I've arranged to have a look at that Vita Elite on Sunday. How can I tell if it's nicked?

Re the Vita being nicked, just ask the seller where they bought it (must have been new) and whether they still have the receipt etc. You'll get a good enough impression, I'd have thought, from how confidently they answer. And if it's a bloke selling it with not a woman in sight, that don't look good, for example. If it's a middle-class female within three inches of your height it's probably legit.

IF you are tempted to buy frame and fork and build your own, then re long legs and short reach, it might well be worth considering a tourer designed for drops and fitting north road, porteur, or moustache bars. I am a little biased as the very, very proud owner of one, but you can't really do much better than the Surly Long Haul Trucker for a one-bike-to-rule-them-all. Designed for drop bars it is short in the top tube, but with a slack head angle it handles well with a short stem and flat bars. Discussion of flat-barred LHTs here, including pictures of mine before it was kitted out with guards, racks, bottle cages, sqr mount, rk mount etc, etc. ... viewtopic.php?f=16&t=56065. It is an amazing bike, easily the most comfortable thing I have ever ridden, with everything you could want right down to brazed-on spoke holders and a pump peg.

The effective top tube is actually shorter in your size than the Vita. (you'd be a 52cm or 54cm, around 21", equivalent to a 17" MTB/hybrid as mentioned above.) Also, especially if you go for the 26" wheel version, it doesn't have a silly steep seat angle to provide toe clearance. It's altogether a more sensible geometry than those of the Ridgeback, Dawes and Raleigh equivalents discussed here... viewtopic.php?f=5&t=58006 Finally, it comes with an uncut fork steerer so you can get the bars as high as you like without ugly stem extenders and adjustable stems etc.*

However, buying and building up a bike from frame isn't cheap, as I think you found with your current bike. You can't buy parts for what the big manufacturers can (even from Rose in Germany) and they buy brand new bits for what you pay for Ebay parts which may or may not be in good working order. A little-used 2nd hand complete bike like that Vita, or last year's model in a sale, will get you more for your money. Mine cost me £875 as pictured, and a good £350 more with Tubus racks and Vaude panniers etc. And that's with access to a modest staff discount, clearance parts from Spa, Chain Reaction and Rose, and with free workshop time and expert assistance. Full RRP of my custom build like would have been a notional £2,000, although no shop would charge that if you gave them the job.

Finally, one thought about your current frame. It may well be a woman's frame, but if it is an MTB frame it will be longer than a hybrid or road frame. Because of the short stems now in vogue, and the desire for a fairly stretched riding position, MTB frames can be considerably longer in the top tube for a given size. My 20" Kona MTB is a good inch longer in effective top tube than my 62cm Surly LHT or my 25" Trek Soho. The Specialized Jett 29er is an inch longer, with a longer stem, than the Vita in the same nominal 17" size... http://www.specialized.com/gb/gb/bc/SBC ... e=Mountain This women's 17" MTB is actually longer than the 17" Sirrus, the men's version of the Vita.

Enjoy the shopping around!

* My tip is to mess around with an adjustable stem and some spacers until you get comfy, measure up, and use this calculator to find the right ahead stem to get the same angle. Then cut the steerer an inch above the stem, leaving leeway for later adjustment or future owners.

I wouldn't rule out a compact frame just because it won't accommodate a D-lock. If you're a regular pannier user you've presumably got a fixed rack. You can buy or improvise D-lock brackets for rear racks.

alicej wrote:I've arranged to have a look at that Vita Elite on Sunday. How can I tell if it's nicked?

Well, the same contact number corresponds to a Wayne, or a Jude, or a Holly, or an Arron, or a Linzie. What is it? A mobile public telephone booth? Despite the multiplicity of names, all their adverts have similar wording and use of all-capitals.

In the past six weeks alone, they have sold via gumtree a Peugeot renolds [sic] 501 racer, a peugeot lauretet road racer, a claud butler criterium 14 speed road racer, a ladies vintage retro raleigh solitair shopper, a mercurio RA5 road racer, a Vintage Retro Ladies Townsend, a very rare vintage retro claud butler town bike, a vintage retro peugeot unisex road racer, a specialized hardrock sport disc 2010, a vintage retro emelle wayfarer town bike ....sorry, I'm bored now.

Some of these seem to have been bought from e-bay prior to selling them on. The current e-bay ID is feelreal.dude, but was poppy44henrydude. The person/people advertise in loot a lot, too.

Why not ask for the frame number so that you can check it out on the various registers, and also mention in passing that this purchase would be to replace one you had stolen, then see how evasive the seller becomes. Then, if you do proceed, check that the frame number given to you over the phone matches what is actually on the bike?