Hi there,
I am intending on doing LEJOG in three weeks time. In preparation I thought I would follow the sustrans route from Sheffield to Chesterfield and travel on to Leicester on a mini-tour. I thought this would both a simple and tourer friendly route given that these routes are found across the UK and they urge people to use public transport where ever possible to get to the start of any route. I have to say that by the time I reached Chesterfield station I was vitriolic with rage, had to cancel my B&B and got on the first train back to Sheffield.
From the start many important cycle path signs had been removed in the city areas or were pointed the wrong way and I had to constantly stop to figure out where I needed to go and furthermore, the sustrans map was really unclear and I my ordinance survey was mostly used.
What was the most enraging was the ridiculous 'access points' which were at regular intervals along the trans penine trail. Did someone not realise that these large metal constructions that are designed to prevent motorbike access might also impede any normally sized bikes. Now I'm a reasonably strong woman, but continually upending my bike and lifting it over the tops of these many 'access points' with two very large rear touring panniers was just too much and too demoralising. I have vowed never ever to follow a sustrans route again!
Has anyone else experienced this or is it just me?
Demoralising sustrans routes
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lkbc
Demoralising sustrans routes
Last edited by lkbc on 12 May 2007, 7:31pm, edited 1 time in total.
No. It certainly isn't just you! I hate them.
They're absolutely great if you're out with the family on a gentle ride on a Sunday, but a serious rider on a serious bike covering serious distance with serious luggage - euch! Try it with a trailer!
At the risk of boring people again (for which I apologise) please read my account of my LEJOGLE, and specifically the bit entering Edinburgh, and then on towards the Forth Road Bridge.
www.lejogandback.blogspot.com
Stay on the roads. That's what they're there for!
They're absolutely great if you're out with the family on a gentle ride on a Sunday, but a serious rider on a serious bike covering serious distance with serious luggage - euch! Try it with a trailer!
At the risk of boring people again (for which I apologise) please read my account of my LEJOGLE, and specifically the bit entering Edinburgh, and then on towards the Forth Road Bridge.
www.lejogandback.blogspot.com
Stay on the roads. That's what they're there for!
Mick F. Cornwall
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happyhippo
- Posts: 30
- Joined: 16 Jan 2007, 1:49pm
(UN)HappyhippoI started my LEJOG in spetmeber a couple of years ago and had had enough of sustrans routes by the time I was through Redruth. Signs were hard to see, sometimes non-existent and when I did find the right one I was winding around all over the place and getting nowhere. Ignore them, pick your own route. The plus side of doing your own route is that most sustrans routes go from town to town so ignoring them means you can find a less meandering path that avoids built up areas.
Good for families plodding along on a sunday afternoon, but rubbish for someone trying to get somewhere.
Good for families plodding along on a sunday afternoon, but rubbish for someone trying to get somewhere.
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lkbc
Yep, I agree, families dog walking with a few little one's trailing behind on bikes is perfectly suited to the sustrans route.
I am really relieved to know that I'm not the only one. I am still so angered about the promotion of them being a touring friendly route; it really did ruin a potentially fab ride on a sunny day, not to mention the damage to my panniers and my swollen red hands.
Great LEJOG blog Mick F. I think that just cycling the interesting bits and going by train for the rest is also an apealing option.
I am really relieved to know that I'm not the only one. I am still so angered about the promotion of them being a touring friendly route; it really did ruin a potentially fab ride on a sunny day, not to mention the damage to my panniers and my swollen red hands.
Great LEJOG blog Mick F. I think that just cycling the interesting bits and going by train for the rest is also an apealing option.
Sustrans frustration
Hello,
As a volunteer Ranger for my local area I can agree that the routes are not really suited to cycle touring in general but are to encourage people to get out on a bike for a ride. Or in some cases for a local ride with less traffic. My own view is that the routes are not designed but fitted in where possible to unused tracks and lanes. A great number of routes also are very hilly which is a great shame. As to the signage problem this is down to the local Ranger to keep up to date with as vandalism is the most likely cause of signage malfunction.
I personally would only use Sustrans routes for a lazy pleasure ride and not to cycletour.
The gates to block motorcycles? I rest my case!
John.
As a volunteer Ranger for my local area I can agree that the routes are not really suited to cycle touring in general but are to encourage people to get out on a bike for a ride. Or in some cases for a local ride with less traffic. My own view is that the routes are not designed but fitted in where possible to unused tracks and lanes. A great number of routes also are very hilly which is a great shame. As to the signage problem this is down to the local Ranger to keep up to date with as vandalism is the most likely cause of signage malfunction.
I personally would only use Sustrans routes for a lazy pleasure ride and not to cycletour.
The gates to block motorcycles? I rest my case!
John.
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thirdcrank
- Posts: 36740
- Joined: 9 Jan 2007, 2:44pm
This island (and the populated ones nearby) have a comprehensive network of roads connecting most places to nearly everywhere else. Maps and the ability to use them are the main requirement so IMO Sustrans on-road routes can really only serve to reduce the freedom of cyclists. (Pick your own way near a signed Sustrans route and you are not using the "approved" route for cyclists.) In any case, the over-riding desire to avoid any hint of traffic leads to some bizarre detours. The over-signing of some routes is absurd. Any policy to get people to cycle rather than drive must assume that they will still want to go to the same places and all the year round. Anywhere that is unsuitable for cycling in the winter/ in bad weather/ in the dark is quite pointless for that type of riding.
I have never been much interested in cyclo cross/ rough stuff or the apparently tamer version involved in Sustrans off-road routes. They are obviously popular with people including cyclists, who like to get away from traffic, for activities such as exercising dogs, teaching children how to ride a bike and so on.
I have been grateful for a couple of Sustrans crossings of obstacles, the most notable being the ability to use the former railway bridge over the Ouse at Naburn near York.
On balance, I fear that whatever the good intentions, the long-term result of the Sustrans approach will be to reduce the rights of cyclists to use the road network.
I have never been much interested in cyclo cross/ rough stuff or the apparently tamer version involved in Sustrans off-road routes. They are obviously popular with people including cyclists, who like to get away from traffic, for activities such as exercising dogs, teaching children how to ride a bike and so on.
I have been grateful for a couple of Sustrans crossings of obstacles, the most notable being the ability to use the former railway bridge over the Ouse at Naburn near York.
On balance, I fear that whatever the good intentions, the long-term result of the Sustrans approach will be to reduce the rights of cyclists to use the road network.
Also, in defence of Sustrans, what gets designed by Sustrans civil engineers rarely gets properly built. Local Authorities get the final say and the funding (Sustrans might source the funding but it has to be channelled through the LA). What we get are the result of non-cycling car-obsessed alleged "highways engineers" half-hearted efforts.
Believe me, nothing the so-called "anti-Sustrans" brigade can say can be more critical of what gets built in the name of "cycling facilities" than Sustrans themselves - you wouldn't believe the language some senior Sustrans people use when referring to council muppets.
Still, progress is being made; like it or not the practical efforts of Sustrans is putting cycling back on more and more people's radar and it is slowly and surely wearing down the LA's antipathy towards any form of transport that doesn't involve private motoring.
The only way to get a more cycling friendly infrastructure is to get more people cycling - and vice versa of course. It's a catch-22 situation that will take a very long time to wind ourselves out of.
It would be a lot better all round if the different cycling factions worked more together than by wasting energy and resources bickering amongst themselves. The two organisations working together could produce great results.
Believe me, nothing the so-called "anti-Sustrans" brigade can say can be more critical of what gets built in the name of "cycling facilities" than Sustrans themselves - you wouldn't believe the language some senior Sustrans people use when referring to council muppets.
Still, progress is being made; like it or not the practical efforts of Sustrans is putting cycling back on more and more people's radar and it is slowly and surely wearing down the LA's antipathy towards any form of transport that doesn't involve private motoring.
The only way to get a more cycling friendly infrastructure is to get more people cycling - and vice versa of course. It's a catch-22 situation that will take a very long time to wind ourselves out of.
It would be a lot better all round if the different cycling factions worked more together than by wasting energy and resources bickering amongst themselves. The two organisations working together could produce great results.
IKBC
Hello you have hit on one of my hates. I am a Sustrans Ranger and I want to take action against these incessant cycle traps. I have mentioned them to my Ranger Co-ordinator and does it surprise you to hear he doesnt exactly love them himself.
Reasons given are
1) When planning a route the Police will hold Sustrans 'liable' for any criminal activities. So if your local hoodies(Yes my son and wife wear hoodies, I am just using the stereotype to fit their mentality) move from the mall or park onto the cyclepath then the Police blame the cycletrack for causing an increase in crime.
In keeping with this attitude the Council want to make sure they exclude the motorbikes. In reality you (or at least I) can get a motorbike just about anywhere most people can get a laden tourer or trailer.
I too did a delightfull ride from Carmarthen to Cardiff and the traffic free sections were so relaxing apart from all the stop, squeeze, wiggle, lift and starts they stick on the route. I am told that a lot of the obstructions have been removed already.
So as we are all worked up about it, what can we do?
Attacking Sustrans as such probably will not help as they are just trying to do the best they can, involving some pragmatic sacrifices along the way.
However supplying Sustrans with complaints may be helpfull to change their attitude and to give them ammunition to fight with.
I am not a political person and I hate the idea of organising or running a campaign. Does any one have any good ideas?
I wondered as we have a new law which forbids providing a service which is not available to all could we use this as a lever against councils who have these barriers on their land as they certainly deny access to the disabled. Or does the law only apply to paid services?
I want to do something about these barriers as I am about to have a new baby and they will prevent me from being able to use Sustrans routes anymore whilst she is with me. On buying a trailer I suddenly became aware how I would not be able to cycle on all the places I would really like to cycle traffic-free with my baby.
About the signs. They are maintained by Volunteers like me. The vandals can often destroy them quicker than we can fix them. The route you were on may not have a Volunteer covering it. So if you want to see good signs on the route you will have to become a Volunteer and take it over yourself.
Because no amount of moaning will repair the signs it will take some work and that will only be done by a local Volunteer and who better than you?
This is not a criticism just a fact the route is maintained by Volunteers on Charity money it is not a government scheme so if there are no volunteers there are no signs.
Hello you have hit on one of my hates. I am a Sustrans Ranger and I want to take action against these incessant cycle traps. I have mentioned them to my Ranger Co-ordinator and does it surprise you to hear he doesnt exactly love them himself.
Reasons given are
1) When planning a route the Police will hold Sustrans 'liable' for any criminal activities. So if your local hoodies(Yes my son and wife wear hoodies, I am just using the stereotype to fit their mentality) move from the mall or park onto the cyclepath then the Police blame the cycletrack for causing an increase in crime.
In keeping with this attitude the Council want to make sure they exclude the motorbikes. In reality you (or at least I) can get a motorbike just about anywhere most people can get a laden tourer or trailer.
I too did a delightfull ride from Carmarthen to Cardiff and the traffic free sections were so relaxing apart from all the stop, squeeze, wiggle, lift and starts they stick on the route. I am told that a lot of the obstructions have been removed already.
So as we are all worked up about it, what can we do?
Attacking Sustrans as such probably will not help as they are just trying to do the best they can, involving some pragmatic sacrifices along the way.
However supplying Sustrans with complaints may be helpfull to change their attitude and to give them ammunition to fight with.
I am not a political person and I hate the idea of organising or running a campaign. Does any one have any good ideas?
I wondered as we have a new law which forbids providing a service which is not available to all could we use this as a lever against councils who have these barriers on their land as they certainly deny access to the disabled. Or does the law only apply to paid services?
I want to do something about these barriers as I am about to have a new baby and they will prevent me from being able to use Sustrans routes anymore whilst she is with me. On buying a trailer I suddenly became aware how I would not be able to cycle on all the places I would really like to cycle traffic-free with my baby.
About the signs. They are maintained by Volunteers like me. The vandals can often destroy them quicker than we can fix them. The route you were on may not have a Volunteer covering it. So if you want to see good signs on the route you will have to become a Volunteer and take it over yourself.
Because no amount of moaning will repair the signs it will take some work and that will only be done by a local Volunteer and who better than you?
This is not a criticism just a fact the route is maintained by Volunteers on Charity money it is not a government scheme so if there are no volunteers there are no signs.
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thirdcrank
- Posts: 36740
- Joined: 9 Jan 2007, 2:44pm
meic
The bit about the police holding Sustrans liable sounds weird to me. I think your co-ordinator person has got something else mixed up. It is most certainly true that residents groups are always moaning about any sort of path / track which takes people near the backs of their property and in these days of police driving around in cars, wise villains often avoid the roads. (There has been a certain amount of police pressure in parts of Yorkshire to close a lot of ginnels on the grounds that that is where they know criminals congregate. There seems a pretty obvious solution to me but who am I to say?)
I am not much of a Sustrans person but I was under the impression that they were removing a lot of the barriers to privide disabled access. I think that if you read the Sustrans guidelines for the National Cycle Network they even specify the width needed to accommodate a trike ridden by a disabled adult.
I think that some of the sign removal is down to disgruntled residents, not just vandalism.
The bit about the police holding Sustrans liable sounds weird to me. I think your co-ordinator person has got something else mixed up. It is most certainly true that residents groups are always moaning about any sort of path / track which takes people near the backs of their property and in these days of police driving around in cars, wise villains often avoid the roads. (There has been a certain amount of police pressure in parts of Yorkshire to close a lot of ginnels on the grounds that that is where they know criminals congregate. There seems a pretty obvious solution to me but who am I to say?)
I am not much of a Sustrans person but I was under the impression that they were removing a lot of the barriers to privide disabled access. I think that if you read the Sustrans guidelines for the National Cycle Network they even specify the width needed to accommodate a trike ridden by a disabled adult.
I think that some of the sign removal is down to disgruntled residents, not just vandalism.
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lkbc
Meic
I agree, I think that I will complain to sustrans. I also agree that merely sitting back and moaning is both helpful and also unhelpful. Indeed, any attempt to promote cycling has to be applauded, especially attempts to involve young children but we must ensure that cyclists are not then penalised for NOT using the routes as thirdcrank might fear.
The other barriers on this route were the massive stone boulders which were even slimmer than the access points.
I agree, I think that I will complain to sustrans. I also agree that merely sitting back and moaning is both helpful and also unhelpful. Indeed, any attempt to promote cycling has to be applauded, especially attempts to involve young children but we must ensure that cyclists are not then penalised for NOT using the routes as thirdcrank might fear.
The other barriers on this route were the massive stone boulders which were even slimmer than the access points.
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chrisygee
The Sustrans routes were one of the main things that inspired me to write up my LE2JOG experience as a rather tongue-in-cheek book (http://www.lulu.com/content/803257).
If you use these routes from LE to JOG, you are sure to enjoy the same thrills I did. ie. sand as a way of surfacing a cycle path in a very windy area - guess what? you get drifts.
There's a metal staircase in Scotland, near Lairg, and the routes around The Black Isle are a joke.
I have drawn some maps and put in the back of the book, which show the way we went - although these might only show you the routes to avoid.
www.landsend2johnogroats.co.uk
If you use these routes from LE to JOG, you are sure to enjoy the same thrills I did. ie. sand as a way of surfacing a cycle path in a very windy area - guess what? you get drifts.
There's a metal staircase in Scotland, near Lairg, and the routes around The Black Isle are a joke.
I have drawn some maps and put in the back of the book, which show the way we went - although these might only show you the routes to avoid.
www.landsend2johnogroats.co.uk
I also believe cyclists belong on the road but I must pop my head over the top and say that I hugely enjoyed riding the Pennine Cycle Way, C2C and Reivers in recent years and don't recall one single barrier to impede my progress.
I shall be doing the Lon Las Cymru next month and hoping for an equally enjoyable experience.
Mark
I shall be doing the Lon Las Cymru next month and hoping for an equally enjoyable experience.
Mark
Sustrans is just a different sort of cycling .If you don't like it then you don't have to do it - there's plenty other to go at ! Having said that ,some routes have loads of barriers and some have very few/none .We're doing the Walnet to Whitby route at the end of the month -mainly minor lanes with very little "engineered " bits at all .
Sustrans routes
I would agree that if you really want to get anywhere roads are better, but my local Sustrans routes around Cambridge are quite special.From Jesus Green in the centre of the town a purpose built path has been built across the Commons to reach a Park and Ride site.From there it takes you under the A14 and out into the country.Striking out across country from Burwell to Ely the route cuts across farm tracks and othr rights of way.Yes there are difficult bits around gates but the access to the Wicken Fen nature reserve takes you through afield with wild ponies, miles from main roads.From there you strike across country linking paths which otherwise have no public access, then on a smooth path along the River Ouse to the heart of Ely.Big sky vistas, wild birds and peace.If I want to go quickly there is a way by road (albeit not as safe) but the Sustrans route is special because it is so peaceful and is mostly bikes only. Long live the difference