Cycling UK Forum

It's been around -12°C most nights here for the last week. In the wee small hours this morning a water main burst at the crossroads just down from here, creating a kerb-to-kerb ice-rink across a quiet sidestreet. The local sappers and pumpers turned out and cordoned it off, but with our current temperatures there's not a hope of unfreezing it, so there's now a sheet of hard ice extending 20 to 30 yards down the street.

When I was a kid I would have been out sliding on it, and so would every other kid in the neighbourhood. Here, there's not a one. Where are they then - indoors, getting all twitchy-thumbed with games? What a sad bloody bunch.

What have we done to our kids?

Prolly playing 'Pro Ice Hockey II - Revenge of the Ice Monsters' on PS2.

Audax67 wrote:.............What have we done to our kids?

What indeed?

The kids in our cul-de-sac were out making chairs in the snow today. Mini V spent most of the day out of doors. She came in once for dry socks because her feet were cold, and once for a cup of hot cocoa.

But quite a few of the families don't let their kids out to play. And I have a few friends who live in commuter villages towards London where the kids don't play outside. Ever. They make appointments to play after school at each others' houses.

I think it's a combination of things.

1) Two parents working means that lots of kids have their lives ordered around schedules, and anything like music lessons or tennis club has to be done on the weekend, so play loses out

2) Many parents believe it's not safe for their kids to play out. They worry about traffic, crime, anti-social behaviour... These worries are reinforced by the media. 20 or 30 years ago, a 7 or 8 year old would have been expected to be capable of going down to the shop with a little money & buying a loaf of bread and some sweets with the change; now, s/he isn't allowed to walk to school with friends because it isn't safe (even though it's statistically safer now than 30 years ago)

3) People are so used to controlled environements, central heating, etc. that they aren't as hardy. Parents complain about their kids having PE outside this time of year. They are so convinced that kids shouldn't go out in this that schools have to send notes home with the kids that they should have winter coats, hats and gloves at school so they can go out for PE.

Vorpal wrote: ... even though it's statistically safer now than 30 years ago ...

I'm interested in what you mean by that*. (Fewer road casualties? Offences against the person?)

It's no secret on here that I'm a (proud) grandad from a generation who walked alone to school from day two (having been shown the way on day one) was able to go cycle touring alone from age 13 and played out all over the place.

My own children were walked to school till they were older than I had been (memory not too clear about this but I suspect they only started going alone to secondary school.) There were no real restrictions on playing out except bedtime.

As a caring carer, I scrupulously follow the wishes of their parents, especially my daughter-in-law.

I'd have added another reason to your list: People being a lot quicker to call the police to moan about children playing in the street. Perhaps partly because a lot more people are on the phone, partly because they dont like anybody playing anywhere near their precious motors parked with two wheels up on the pavement. (Back to the OP, they regularly used to sledge down our street but now the drivers always have the snow cleared PDQ - or at least enough patches to prevent sledging.)

* This isn't a bit of mild trolling. I'm sure you are basing it on some statistics and I'd be interested to know what they are.

TC: the statistics aren't mine. And in fact it's a combination of things.
-the incidents of most crimes have gone down. certainly the really awful ones; the sort that get global attention; have dropped in the last couple of decades (but information is more readily available, so more people hear about these things when they do happen)
-many of the crimes that show higher incident rates are ones for which reporting has increased, so it is impossible to know whether crime has increased (child abuse is the best example); the various attempts to estimate are difficult to trust (or sometimes understand) without specialist knowledge
-fewer children die accidental deaths such as drowning in ponds, electrocuting themselves on home electrics, falling down stairs, house fires, etc. This is due to safety devices (i.e. smoke alarms, socket covers & stair gates), parents being more aware of dangers, toy companies meeting minimum standards, etc.
-fewer children die in road traffic accidents (of all sorts)
-fewer children die of childhood diseases or illness
-fewer children die because of work; fewer children work, and those that do (farms & family enterprises), do so more safely

Child mortality rates are the lowest they have ever been in history. There are obviously other ways to measure safety, but these are ones for which data are relatively easily available. There may also be data about emotional health and development; I haven't investigated.

If you want specifics on any of those, I can hunt them down; the information is from a variety of sources. The only one I remember for certain where it came from is the child mortality rates, which are UN statistics/analyses, published by the World Bank.

p.s. when there was snow on it just over a week ago, the kids in our cul-de-sac were sledging in the street. But they ride their bikes & scooters there, as well, so that's okay, then...

Vorpal wrote:-fewer children die accidental deaths .... electrocuting themselves .... socket covers

oh, come on. you've been reading this forum long enough to know not to put blind faith in little bits of plastic just because they seem like a good idea.

seriously, you're a grown-up and much stronger than a toddler/baby. turn off the power and see if you can get a screwdriver, a car key, pickle fork or anything into an electrical socket. it's impossible unless you've got an earth pin from a plug.
or an earth pin copy snapped off from a socket cover.
or a socket cover bent a bit and turned upside down.

Its not just here. I've just finished reading a crime novel set in northern Sweden. In it, one character is complaining that his grandchildren(who are visiting) don't want to play outside even though its the height of their summer. In exasperation he makes them go outside and insist that they "play" but notes they don't seem to know what to do. When it rains, they scuttle happily inside, eager to get back to their Playstations.

Jan

jan19 wrote:Its not just here. I've just finished reading a crime novel set in northern Sweden. In it, one character is complaining that his grandchildren(who are visiting) don't want to play outside even though its the height of their summer. In exasperation he makes them go outside and insist that they "play" but notes they don't seem to know what to do. When it rains, they scuttle happily inside, eager to get back to their Playstations.

Jan

Roll your eyes if you will, but had PSes existed in our childhood we'd been exactly the same. I remember lots of playing outside as a child, but I remember being bored rigid out there quite often as well.

I agree with Calvin (6 year old, rather than the miserable old reformed theologian) - "People who get nostalgic about childhood were obviously never children"

Roll your eyes if you will, but had PSes existed in our childhood we'd been exactly the same. I remember lots of playing outside as a child, but I remember being bored rigid out there quite often as well.

I agree with Calvin (6 year old, rather than the miserable old reformed theologian) - "People who get nostalgic about childhood were obviously never children"

well, yes and no. While I agree PSG's weren't around in my day, there were plenty of indoor occupations to attract us. In my day it was the now old-fashioned reading and doing jigsaws. But I still loved playing outside, cycling etc, especially in nice weather.

the point I was trying to make (complete with ) was that these Swedish children simply didn't know what to do outside (and were therefore bored). The grandfather, who could find plenty of child-type activities to do outside was at a loss to explain why they found such little pleasure outside that they were desperate to run back in.

I thought it was rather sad.

Jan

(book was good though )

I dunno, we complain that children never go outside, then the next moment we're moaning about 'gangs' of teenage 'hoodies' hanging around in bus shelters and parks, menacing little old ladies just by being there. Unless said yoof don shorts and start propelling hoops down the road or take up hop-scotch I don't think they've got any chance of winning

Well, unless I'm very much mistaken, it's half-term around here this week. It was a nice morning, and I have been out on my bike through the local lanes as usual. I didn't see one child cycling, but when I was at school we cycled everywhere during school holidays, and my memory is sound on that point (if not on others)

My playground was Epping Forest, and did I have fun!

Children don't play outside because it's too dangerous.

In the local rag (Biggleswade Chronicle or Beds on Sunday - can't remember which) there was a warning that children in Stotfold had been approached by strangers.

Children ran away and told parents. Parents told police. Police investigated. Outcome: Somebody from outside the area was asking for directions.

Police praised the children and basically said that if you are spoken to by a stranger run away and tell the police.

What sort of society do we live in when children are actively encouraged to regard everybody they don't recognise as a threat?

hubgearfreak wrote:

Vorpal wrote:-fewer children die accidental deaths .... electrocuting themselves .... socket covers

oh, come on. you've been reading this forum long enough to know not to put blind faith in little bits of plastic just because they seem like a good idea.

seriously, you're a grown-up and much stronger than a toddler/baby. turn off the power and see if you can get a screwdriver, a car key, pickle fork or anything into an electrical socket. it's impossible unless you've got an earth pin from a plug.
or an earth pin copy snapped off from a socket cover.
or a socket cover bent a bit and turned upside down.

http://www.fatallyflawed.org.uk/

None of the safety socket thingies actually conform to the correct spec (or at least none I know of)