Travis Perkins lorry

[simonineaston]

I was following a natty new delivery truck, run by Travis Perkins, the other day, and was puzzled by the large yellow panel stuck on the back, which warns cyclists to 'beware of passing the lorry on the inside' or words to that effect. Kind of the TP to think of us, but how else do they think we'll get past...
Properly, it's the duty of the lorry driver to take notice of other road users - or am I being naive? TP delivery drivers may start to think they don't have that responsibility now their lorries are equipped with notices that warn cyclists against passing them on the inside - exactly where we'll be if we're using a cycle-lane.

[snibgo]

I think there is a problem that many cyclists don't know about blind spots. The sign should say something like:

This lorry has blind spots big enough to hide pedestrians, cyclists and cars. It shouldn't be allowed anywhere near people. But it is, so we suggest people keep at least 2m (6') clear at all times.

[gaz]

I think there is a problem that many cyclists don't know about blind spots. The sign should say something like:

This lorry has blind spots big enough to hide pedestrians, cyclists and cars. It shouldn't be allowed anywhere near people. But it is, so we suggest people keep at least 2m (6') clear at all times.

I like that.

Have you considered putting it in to the competition.

[mill4six]

Up the inside of a lorry is a killing zone, seems obvious to avoid it with or without a sign. If there's plenty of room and you're confident you have time then go for it but you see plenty of people doing it when the left indicator is on I'd have little sympathy in that situation, we want others to take extra special care of us but we can do our bit too!

[thirdcrank]

And if they overtake you and "forget" you are there, it's your own stupid fault - with a sign to prove it.

[tatanab]

I live less than a mile from a TP depot so come across their vehicles regularly. I have yet to find one that is not driven courteously. Thye do not pass me too close or pull in too soon and hang back as needed. Maybe it's just this depot. The signs appear on other traders vehicles as well and there have been signs like them for many years (e.r overtaker and undertaker). Most of us I suspect are experienced enough to know when and how to pass on the left but there are a large number of people who seemingly cannot think about anything further than the end of their noses.

[Richard]

This lorry has blind spots big enough to hide pedestrians, cyclists and cars. It shouldn't be allowed anywhere near people. But it is, so we suggest people keep at least 2m (6') clear at all times.

Ambulances and fire engines have blind spots as do most cars. Cyclists have blind spots as well, particularly recumbents where it's difficult to turn round fully. Do you think they shouldn't be allowed near people either?

There isn't a day goes by when we don't rely on something delivered by a large lorries. They have every right to be on the road as do cars. TP, along with other companies that put these warnings on their vehicles, are doing so to help keep those cyclists who don't have the benefit of our awareness alive.

I'm getting a bit fed up with this "cyclists are right, motorists are wrong" mentality. Yes, there's plenty of bad drivers but there's plenty of bad cyclists too.

[horizon]

This lorry has blind spots big enough to hide pedestrians, cyclists and cars. It shouldn't be allowed anywhere near people. But it is, so we suggest people keep at least 2m (6') clear at all times.

Ambulances and fire engines have blind spots as do most cars. Cyclists have blind spots as well, particularly recumbents where it's difficult to turn round fully. Do you think they shouldn't be allowed near people either?

There isn't a day goes by when we don't rely on something delivered by a large lorries. They have every right to be on the road as do cars. TP, along with other companies that put these warnings on their vehicles, are doing so to help keep those cyclists who don't have the benefit of our awareness alive.

I'm getting a bit fed up with this "cyclists are right, motorists are wrong" mentality. Yes, there's plenty of bad drivers but there's plenty of bad cyclists too.

Richard: to cut a long story short, other people call this the fallacy of moral equivalence.

[Richard]

Richard: to cut a long story short, other people call this the fallacy of moral equivalence.

Rubbish.

[[XAP]Bob]

There is a huge difference between the damage a cyclist and a motorist can do.

A bad cyclist is far less risk than a bad motorist.


Yes there are idiots on all forms of transport (maybe pilots and train drivers are sufficiently tested to have a very lo count.) However that doesn't excuse any of them.


Those signs aren't a bad idea, but look like they'd make a great place to mount a side facing camera...

[ferrit worrier]

Ah yes! the inside line, or "The squish zone" or "Tunnel of doom" enter it at your peril

[horizon]

Richard: to cut a long story short, other people call this the fallacy of moral equivalence.

Rubbish.

Richard: with the greatest respect, this wasn't a view of mine, simply the reporting of a fact. Your post made a well known point, though not one with which I agree, and it is an argument that needs to be discussed from time to time on this forum. Where it leads however (and why it needs to be refuted) is to the idea that cyclists are a menace equal to motor vehicles both to society and to themselves: this idea is perpetuated simply to shift the focus of blame from the owners of lorries, their drivers and their political representatives onto their actual victims. That, by any standards, is a moral outrage and why it is always necessary for your viewpoint to be comprehensively refuted, at least on this forum.

[DavidT]

I once heard it said (actually in a driving context) that there was little point in arguing the legal rights and wrongs of any given situation from a hospital bed. I therefore subscribe to a sensible approach to defensive riding (and driving).

To that end, I avoid putting myself in the blind spot of a lorry. Of course, a lorry might do it to me by overtaking etc, but if I can remove the 50% of cases where it's down to me, I am a bit safer.

(There was once an excellent post on here from a lorry driver who, having put up pictures of all his views and mirrors, talked through all the competing elements for his observation - not least the potential for pedestrians and cyclists arriving from many different directions. I'm happy to help him, to keep me out of that hospital bed)

[horizon]

I can understand the concern of drivers of large lorries about cyclists disappearing from their field of view and I for one believe that concern to be genuine and heartfelt. What I find much harder to understand is how these drivers were expected to drive safely a vehicle which by its very design is likely to kill and how these vehicles found their way onto our roads, right in the centre of towns. While it is true (as Richard above says) that we all benefit economically from this state of affairs, few of us have ever been presented with a real choice, as in "Are you happy that saving a few pence off your loaf of bread will kill someone today?". Motorised goods transport has always killed but I don't think the case of large, poorly mirrored vehicles has been equalled for its clearly defined effect on cyclists. My argument with Richard above is that the two parties are absolutely not equal.

[thirdcrank]

... if I can remove the 50% of cases where it's down to me, I am a bit safer....

I don't think it's quite that simple. It seems to me that this is about attitudes and assumptions and more specifically, how warning signs and exhortations may affect them. The more signs there are warning others about this and that, the easier it is for the onus to pass in the same direction as the warning. In short, the warning sign may make you less safe.
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PS The various hooters and tooters fitted to warn road users that the - presumably unsighted - driver of a truck or similar is reversing are a development of the situation I'm talking about.