Shimano Alfine 11 - Longer term reliability

[ukdodger]

Rohloff doesn't seem so expensive now and an Alfine 8 looks very attractive

And the Sram I9 too. Even though mine broke on a tour.

[Brucey]

my old SA five speed isn't looking too shabby either....

Oddly enough I don't think for a second that it costs x3 to make an A11 vs an A8. Presumably the reason the A11 costs what it does is because they either thought they could charge that ( it looking like a half-price Rohloff and all...) or that they should charge that much, bearing in mind how many warranty returns they might get....

cheers

[ukdodger]

my old SA five speed isn't looking too shabby either....

Oddly enough I don't think for a second that it costs x3 to make an A11 vs an A8. Presumably the reason the A11 costs what it does is because they either thought they could charge that ( it looking like a half-price Rohloff and all...) or that they should charge that much, bearing in mind how many warranty returns they might get....

cheers

I'll go for the latter.

[jfarnhill]

Starting to side with MacBludgeon on either going for an A8 or spending extra for a Rohloff (which, granted, is not guaranteed reliable and can be quite noisy).

Was coming into work this morning and I started getting a slip in high gears. Looked down and it was due to the bellows for the cable being dragged into the groove for the cable on the hub. "I told you so..." was all I could think of, having read a comment further up this thread saying there was the potential for that to happen. Not sure whether this can be addressed so will have a look this evening. It seems like the hub end of the bellows is gripping more than the chainstay end and I'm not even sure whether the chainstay end grips at all. When the bellows gets fully compressed when you're in the lowest gear then it pushes the hub end up the cable, leading rather inevitably to it fouling in the cable channel when you move to a high gear. Any advice/guidance appreciate from those who can make this work.

[ukdodger]

Starting to side with MacBludgeon on either going for an A8 or spending extra for a Rohloff (which, granted, is not guaranteed reliable and can be quite noisy).

Was coming into work this morning and I started getting a slip in high gears. Looked down and it was due to the bellows for the cable being dragged into the groove for the cable on the hub. "I told you so..." was all I could think of, having read a comment further up this thread saying there was the potential for that to happen. Not sure whether this can be addressed so will have a look this evening. It seems like the hub end of the bellows is gripping more than the chainstay end and I'm not even sure whether the chainstay end grips at all. When the bellows gets fully compressed when you're in the lowest gear then it pushes the hub end up the cable, leading rather inevitably to it fouling in the cable channel when you move to a high gear. Any advice/guidance appreciate from those who can make this work.

Oil perhaps. I havent had that problem yet but I'll bet it's in the post. The impression that the A11 was rushed out is gaining ground.

[Meshuga]

I will post images of how I have my Alfine 11 setup. It may help, but then again it may just be good for my hub and cassette joint alignment. I have seat stay CJ alignment because of the frame I have and because (I believe that) there will be less water ingress into the cable on a off road bike. The green and blue non turn washers are swapped left to right side to allow this on vertical dropouts. This first image shows the alignment of the yellow dots. The bottom of the inner dot lines up with the top of the outer dot ON MY HUB, this is a good 6-10 turns of the barrel adjuster in the tighter cable direction. This hub runs absolutely faultlessly like this and under high torque up steep off road gradients. Otherwise I get skipping/crunching in gear 2 mainly but also somewhere higher up, 9-10 I think.

Alfine 11 alignment1.jpg (12.42 KiB) Viewed 2360 times

Second picture shows the seat stay routing a bit better

Chainstay alignment.jpg (17.87 KiB) Viewed 2360 times

Third picture, for the benefit of recent posts, shows a shortened bellows. This is necessary for seat stay routing otherwise the bellows fouls the chain (you can flip the sprocket but this upsets the chainline). You have to make the cut at the rubber grommet end of the bellows, and at the right point of the concertina otherwise it will not stay on the grommet. This bellows stays fine where it is on my bike. It's trial and error so give yourself some leeway before ending up with no bellows at all! I hope the picture shows this but I found if you make the incision 1mm towards the grommet side of the concertina's ridge it should grip really well. A shortened bellows should not be necessary for chainstay alignment, but if you are having issues it may be worth a go.

Enjoy!

[ukdodger]

Very useful. Especially the position of the dots. Thanks

[jfarnhill]

Apologies if this is double posted. Submitted a post and it didn't seem to come up. Was outside at lunchtime and spotted an oil patch under the hub so it appears it is leaking oil again. Thanks to Mishuga and ukdodger for the advice.

[rofan]

I will post images of how I have my Alfine 11 setup.

Did you truncate the shifting cable(s)?
Asking because of the well known 184mm
Thanks

[Meshuga]

I will post images of how I have my Alfine 11 setup.

Did you truncate the shifting cable(s)?
Asking because of the well known 184mm
Thanks

No. I can't see how the "well known 184mm" has come about - though I have seen hot debate on other forums. How can it possibly matter when the barrel adjuster then chnges everything once you have it on the bike? According to Shimano if the dots are lined up then the thing will work. I installed my cable at 184mm and the dots didn't line up anyway, so I used the barrel adjuster to tighten it a bit! Then a bit more when I realised that for this hub the yellow dots need to be where they are now.

The whole 184mm thing is nonsense - it's a starting point, and only that. What annoys me though is that Shimano need to sort out the yellow dot thing. Is there a batch of duff cassette joints? Shifting is perfect on Alfine 8 and Nexus 8 with the yellow dots spot on so I really don't get it but hey ho!

[Brucey]

FWIW that is what I have thought as well; I think the 184mm is just to get it within range of the barrel adjuster.

BTW some folk regard some oil leakage as 'normal' on these hubs; back to Sturmey Archer 'total loss' lubrication, then....

cheers

[ukdodger]

FWIW that is what I have thought as well; I think the 184mm is just to get it within range of the barrel adjuster.

BTW some folk regard some oil leakage as 'normal' on these hubs; back to Sturmey Archer 'total loss' lubrication, then....

cheers

Which makes you wonder why they sell a gadget to exactly measure the 184mm's.

[Meshuga]

Which makes you wonder why they sell a gadget to exactly measure the 184mm's.

Indeed. There is also a gadget to exactly measure the Alfine and Nexus 8 distance of xxx mm. I have never used either!

[jfarnhill]

:-S re Brucey's comment on oil usage in the hub given how chuffing expensive the Shimano oil is; even top end fully synth motor oil isn't in the same league! There have been comments that ATF or 15w30 motor oil is pretty much the same viscosity so that might be worth considering post -warranty if it's going through oil at a prolific rate but there's then the question as to how you know when to top up; mine is certainly more clattery now it's lost oil so maybe that's a good indicator (if somewhat sobering as I've ridden it less than 50 miles since it's come back from Madison). I'm almost certain mine is leaking because it was canted over towards the sprocket side and a 'fix' is to lean it over to the opposite side when parked. Generally, most people who ride the Alfine11 and have commented on it (even ones who like it) seem to have some oil leakage.

Re the fabled 184mm, I'd agree that it seems weird it is so important when you can tune up with the barrel adjuster at the lever end. It becomes even stranger when you see Meshuga's setup and see that the dots are nowhere near lined up properly to get it to shift properly - others have reported the same thing on 'tuning' the hub to get it to change gear correctly and not skip.

I've just asked my LBS to talk with Madison about getting a new hub as I think mine is shot. Will update on Tuesday when the warranty manager is back from leave.

[Meshuga]

@ jfarnhill, how did things go with a replacement hub? Any progress?