ETA cycle insurers

[anniefuruk]

ETA like to describe themselves as ethical but they have just refused to pay up for a stolen bike of mine on rather flimsy grounds I would say.

I have insured bikes with them for three years, the cheapest of the three insured bikes, a Land Rover Akasha, was stolen from my daughter's university premises in Nottingham last week. I bought this bike through a friend who saw it for sale outside of a house near her village in Berkshire. I paid cash for it, £125 and it's been insured for several years with ETA. I put in a claim for its replacment, a mere £169.99 from Bikes2U Direct but ETA have declined to pay because I cannot 'prove' ownership.

I explained the circumstances of the purchase and they asked to see either a bank statement showing the sum of money withdrawn 2 years ago (what an Alice in Wonderland world they live in!) or photos of the bike. As I explained to them, it is not unusual for me to have largeish sums of money on me because I run classes, I did look and there were various small sums withdrawn but no conveniently large withdrawal. The bike has been a workhorse and so no photos of it exist. I did have a frame number and I did have a lock receipt and registration form (not in the end mailed to the lock company) which gave all the details of the bike but this has not been enough for ETA.

As I pointed out to them, if this was a fraudulent claim then I would have claimed for the most expensive bike of the three (£500) not the cheapest. I also asked whether they thought I had made up the frame number and description and put it on the insurance just so I could claim for its loss several years later. They 'sympathised' but refused to process the claim.

I have cancelled the whole insurance with them because quite honestly, what is the point of insuring anything anymore? ETA reckon they are 'ethical', I reckon they are sharks just like all the rest. So people, beware of the small print!

[anniefuruk]

Just following on from my posting below about ETA refusing to pay out cycle insurance because I didn't have a proper receipt but only a frame number and details of the bike (it was a cash purchase). On Saturday, in coordination with Bike Week, there was a police tent in town offering security marking and recording of bicycle details for submission to the Immobilise site. I took my Specialized Sirrus to them and whilst he was deciphering the frame number, I commented to the policeman doing it that the insurance company, ETA, had refused to accept possession of a frame number as proof of ownership, so I wondered what on earth the point was of bothering to record such things anymore.

The faces of the four policemen standing around all registered extreme surprise and they queried whether this could really be true. So I told them it was and also the slightly bizarre story quoted to me by one of the ETA staff, namely that a thief might register a stolen bike and then use the frame number as a means of gaining an insurance payout. Therefore possession of a frame number was not seen as evidence of ownership of the bike. The policemen all laughed and then one of them said, 'oh, well, insurance companies, they all do what they can to avoid paying out for any claims'.

Aside from what seems a petty and mean attitude on the part of ETA who claim to be so 'ethical' and who use this as a selling point to the cycling community, I do wonder about the larger implications of this. I have been a keen cyclist for 40 years and in that time I've seen it become more and more difficult to own a decent bike and dare to leave it anywhere for more than 5 minutes. You now need a lock almost as expensive and as heavy as your bike both to deter thieves and get any insurance cover at all. We are encouraged to record all the make/model details and the frame number of a bike because this still remains a unique identification point for each bike that is manufactured and yet at the end of the day, an insurance company can insinuate that you have somehow made this information up and refuse to pay out because you don't have a formal receipt (which could in itself have been a fraudulently produced item). I don't have any answers but I am in despair as to whether it is worth continuing cycling because if you like cycling then you want a decent bike but what's the point if it just gets stolen and then you have no recourse?

[The Mechanic]

Interesting to note that insurance companies don't seem to be interested in proof of ownership car car insurance. I don't recall ever being asked this by a insurer for my car.

[fatboy]

Interesting to note that insurance companies don't seem to be interested in proof of ownership car car insurance. I don't recall ever being asked this by a insurer for my car.

But car registration happens via the DVLA so is official.

[Edwards]

But car registration happens via the DVLA so is official.

Unfortunately having the registration document or V5 is not proof of ownership, the DVLA do state this.
Many people have been caught out by this and have lost the vehicle.

I do not think that ETA are being very ethical, especially if it is not clearly stated on the proposal form that the original receipt is needed in the event of a claim. If they hide things like this in small print the obviously do not want people to know.
I now would not consider taking out any policy with ETA because of this.

[lucyhill75]

Hi there,

I am a long standing member of the ETA, i have travel insurance, road rescue and cycle insurance with them and i have always recieved excellent service.

The comments by anniefuruk actually both surprised and amused me. How can you expect insurance companies to take your word for it that you have bought a bike that you have no proof of. By just giving them the frame number does not prove that you have bought the bike. I have 4 bicycles insured with the ETA, and i have kept all of my reciepts. Surely it's common sense?

Edwards has said "I do not think that ETA are being very ethical, especially if it is not clearly stated on the proposal form that the original receipt is needed in the event of a claim. If they hide things like this in small print the obviously do not want people to know." It is actually clearly stated on the claim form (i have made two claims in the 10 years i have beed with them) and in fact i have recieved an email recently (a few months ago i think) which says what you need to send in if you need to make a claim.

I think the comments about the ETA are unfair, and it would not be any different with any other insurance company.

[Guy951]

I have 4 bicycles insured with the ETA, and i have kept all of my reciepts. Surely it's common sense?

It's only common sense if you buy bikes from recognised dealers who issue proper receipts. Any fool can write "Received from X £YY for a bicycle".

What would ETA have me do? Curse my Granny and my Dad for leaving me their bikes (3 of them with a replacement value of approx £7k) and being thoughtless enough to die without telling me where the receipts are?

[Nettled Shin]

Hello new lucyhill75, would you just reassure us that you have no connection with ETA, other than being a satisfied customer?

This story reinforces my view that insurance is often pretty pointless, and, since the insurers make a profit from you, you probably better off insuring yourself.
Since it is free, it is worth registering your bikes on immobilise.com. The site encourages photographs of your items.
A photograph is weak evidence of ownership, since you could take a photograph of any old bike, or even just download one from the Internet!
Even if you took your bike to a bike shop for a written valuation, it doesn't prove you owned the bike...you could just be on hour hour long test ride from Spa!
Anyway, in this day & age of equality for all, I don't see why ETA should disbar thieves from insuring their stolen bikes...write to your MEP.

[lucyhill75]

Hiya

I don’t have any connection with the ETA, I’m just a happy customer! Although in this day and age insurance companies have to tighten their guidelines, after looking around I’ve found that ETA are actually one of the most lenient insurance companies out there. Everyone has different experiences and expectations, but for me I think they are being reasonable. But that's just my opinion!

[dalifnei]

i was about to take insurance with eta!

Also, OP, you have a good case for return of your premiums - if they were never going to pay out. i would certainly ask them

[goatwarden]

Edwards has said "I do not think that ETA are being very ethical, especially if it is not clearly stated on the proposal form that the original receipt is needed in the event of a claim. If they hide things like this in small print the obviously do not want people to know." It is actually clearly stated on the claim form (i have made two claims in the 10 years i have beed with them) and in fact i have recieved an email recently (a few months ago i think) which says what you need to send in if you need to make a claim.

You have ignored your own evidence of the insurer's duplicity. It appears that the conditons for a successful claim are clearly shown on the claim form; this is something you will only read at the time of making a claim, not at the time you buy the policy. If the insurer requires particular proof of ownership it should request this before agreeing to insure the item; otherwise it may be agreeing to a fraudulent insurance in the first place.

This seems to be a problem with all insurers in my experience. They only choose to tell you their full conditions when it is too late. If they had any ethical business sense then they would refuse to make any contract which might later prove to be fraudulent. To insure an item without first checking ownership of that item implies they condone insurance fraud and thus have no logical grounds for subsequent refusal to pay any claim.

[NewHorizon]

Some years ago I had breakdown cover with them. I bought a new car with its own breakdown cover and cancelled my policy. I applied for a refund of the balance and was very curtly told it would only be given as a credit note against more insurance with them. They claim the balance is in my account - where it will sit until my demise, as I have no intention of using them ever again. That particular piece of daylight robbery is enshrined in the policy, which of course I did not have until I had handed over the money (as goatwarden says).

[severs1966]

ETA do cycle roadside recovery!

I have it!

I have never called them out so I have no idea whether it is any good!

However, I found out today that they will only transport you + cycle a mere 25 miles, whether that be to your home, destination, bike shop or railway station (the last being useless if you are on a trike or tandem, or tandem trike, or a route where the trains don't carry cycles, or there are no more trains today).

This even applies on a "personal policy", which covers ANY vehicle. So you would be covered for unlimited distance recovery for motor vehicles (incl. motorcycles), but discriminated against if you ride a cycle.

[531colin]

25 miles?....probably cheaper to get a taxi in the extremely unlikely event of a breakdown you can't fix at the roadside.

[rmurphy195]

Here's an interesting thought re the question of receipts - I have loads of items in my house, all covered by my household policy. I'm unlikely to provide receipts for all but a handful of them. I'm not going to provide receipts for any of them if the house burns down - with my receipts in it!

At the proposal stage, if the insurer requires receipts then they need to make it clear that the set of documents that comprise the proposal includes copies of the receipts, or the insurers agent should sign a little declaration that they have seen the receipts, or the items to be insured. So if your house then burns down leaving your bikes safe and sound in the garage, but your receipts have been lost, they have a copy on file so don't need to ask you for them if you do make a claim.

Does ETA do anything like this?