Frameset identification

[JohnW]

From the view of the seat cluster lug from above, it would seem that the seat tube is off-centre with the top tube - the seat-lug appears - well - twisted.

As someone has noted, there are double eyelets of the front forks, but not on the rear. Strange inconsistency. Another inconsistency is the differing front and rear brake braze-ons.

The slots on the top tube, for the internal brake cable, don't appear to have reinforcing around them.

I'm not too sure about the quality of this build - nor even sure it isn't a 'do-it-yourself' or apprentice-built frame.

Is there a number stamped on the steering column? (or have you said?), and is it the same as the frame nimber?

The lugs and fork crown are not unusual, and are similar to those on my 1993 Pennine, but the frame number doesn't suggest a Pennine - unless they'd built at least 3303 frames in 1986!!!!!! - and no chance. And they'd have PENNINE stamped on the seat-stay cap. Has there been some kind of repair at the seat cluster?

And hand-painted - is there any residual evidence of an earlier spray paint job? It's odd if the frame's first paint job was by hand/brush. If it's hand painted, then surly it's an amateur job, in which case, how would the original paint have been removed? An amateur would hardly have bathed or blasted it off, so if another paint job under the orange isn't evident, was it scraped or sandpapered off - there'd be some evidence.

It is intreagueing. (And if that spelling is wrong, sorry!)

[breakwellmz]

Morning.

Yes,i see what you mean about the seat cluster,the slot doesn`t line up with the point!
I can`t see how this could have happened post build without being evident in other ways.A poor seat cluster lug to start with?

Regarding odd cantilever braze-ons.

I pulled a 531 Dawes mountain bike frame out of a skip probably 15 years ago,which had missing rear bosses and poorly brazed on fronts(A Friday afternoon job!) I brazed on a pair of rear bosses,that we were using in the workshop at the time.They were a different style to the fronts,and the frame is still in virtual daily use!
Someone out there also has a Hetchins with a 25mm seatpost,after a brazed, sleeved seat cluster/seat tube repair!

No number on the fork column.

I don`t know if it would have a frame number if it was a home build.

No evidence that i can see of an `original` paint finish.
However,i`ve seen all evidence of original paint finishes removed with a hot air gun and a wire brush!

Intriguing?
Yes.

[gaz]

No evidence that i can see of an `original` paint finish.
However,i`ve seen all evidence of original paint finishes removed with a hot air gun and a wire brush!

Another recent frame identification thread was solved (or confirmed) when the paint was stripped.

I'm not suggesting yours is a Pavone, merely that there may be answers beneath the surface.

[breakwellmz]

Hi.

Well there`s a coincidence!

I`ve just had a closer look at the paintwork,and rubbed an area with wet n dry.

It may look like a rough hand painted finish,but is in fact a(VERY faded)orange enamelled finish on top of a white base coat.

I would guess it`s the original colour,with twenty odd years of fade!

I`m no further forward though.

Still open to suggestions.

Thanks chaps

[JohnW]

............Intriguing?
...............

Thanks for that. This happens - a word you've used all your life, suddenly it looks wrong when you write it down, you then try alternatives and they look even worse, and you need to get the dictionary out, but too lazy..........

Back to the frame. You're right - would an amateur have embossed the frame number so neatly, if at all?

If the paint job is original, then the front forks were inconsistent with the rest of the frame to start with (i.e. mudguard/carrier eyes on the drop-outs).

Here's another perspective - a frame builder that I knew, who built two or three frames a week, would, from time to time, accumulate a bucket full of frame components, new and unused; he'd build a frame from them and put it in the shop-window. He was well known for very good frames indeed, and these frames were snapped up - I still have one from 1972.

Something like this could have happened. However, he would never have allowed that seat cluster to pass through to being on sale. He trained quite a few chaps to build frames, and it's not inconceivable that they didn't get it right first time, but good enough to ride themselves.

I'm not saying that this frame is any of these things, but it certainly is intriguing (thanks again), isn't it?

And another possibility occurs to me. If the frame has been in a prang - needed new forks and repair to the rear end, and then stripped down to metal and resprayed.

Gaz's discovery of the PAVONE ghost lettering is interesting.

Keep us posted, won't you?

[breakwellmz]

Morning.

I e-mailed the images and frame number to Bob Jackson Cycles yesterday afternoon,and had a response from them this morning!

I now know it`s NOT a Bob Jackson!

Impressed by the rapid response though.(There is another way of looking at that of course!)

Who next?

Cheers