Well after al_yrpal's recommendation and help and after reading lots of other online reviews, some of them describing weather I'm pretty sure the Vango Spirit 200 would run home crying from, I ordered an Avoir X3 from here:
http://www.outdoorexperience.co.uk/manu ... word=avior
A shade under £80 including P+P.
I spoke to them and they told me it's the 2008/9 model (this date from memory) but said that there was pretty much no difference between this and the latest model. They bought loads back then apparently.
Anyway, knowing the ways of the world and manufacturers' (or accountants') endless "improvement" of products it's even possible that it's more solid than the newer ones.
I may not get to use it in the wild this year but I'll erect it of course and try to report back.
Tent bargain?
Re: Tent bargain?
Avior X3 arrived.
It's been test erected on my lawn - not sure if I will be able to camp in this year, though after my experiences with Vango probably best to try to get some use/test out of it.
Initial thoughts in no particular order , and it would be particularly interesting to hear by al_yrpal's response as he appears to be an expert on it.
Please note that mine is apparently the 2008 model though I was informed by the retailer (see above) that it is pretty much the same as the current one.
@ Impressed by the general size of it.
@ Somewhat mystifying diagramatical erections instructions but think I did it right.
@ Like the fact that it only uses two poles rather than 3 which you might get on a tent of this size.
@ Like the fact that it has that common Coleman design of being lower at one end - seems sensible.
@ Curious arrangement (which I was aware of from online posts) whereby one end of each pole does not go into an eyelet-strenghthened hole on a strap but into a special sleeve. Slight concern about what might happen if this sleeve gets damaged at the bottom, releasing all of the tension/anchoring in the pole. Surely this wll be harder to repair, especially on site? No idea why they use this system. Also with regard to the issue detailed below where the outer fly seems a bit high off the ground at the door side, this design means that I can't move the fly at all on the arched pole.
@Porch smaller than I would have hoped but maybe I've been spoiled by that aspect at least of the Vango Spirit 200+ . I was really looking for horizontal rather than vertical space here for my endless faffing amongst plastic bags. Can doubtless work with it though and there is penty of room for other luggage in the tent with me - it will only be used solo.
@ Hell it's a curious even ugly looking thing from the front/big end. Like the back end of a bus/truck. Though I have a sneaking admiration for designs that don't pander to conventional ideas of loooks. I prefer function.
@ Rather serious concern (maybe unfounded) about the external zip on the big single door down the side. It seems rather lightweight like something you'd get on a light piece of clothing. Nothing like the very strong zip on my old Coleman Cobra. Will have to be careful with pitching so that it is not overstrained I think. And see my concerns below about the tightness of this section.
@ Initially a bit foxed by the pitching - my old Colman Cobra pitches inner first so you peg out the inner quickly then using snap-in buckles quickly fasten the flysheet to it Really neat. With this, it's the flysheet you are pegging for the structure and the inner then clips to that. I initially clipped the inner to the outer before banging pegs in which means you have to be careful not to hit and maybe bust the clip buckles. Then dawned on me that since the inner is non structural you should clip it to the outer after doing all the pegging. I think. The graphic pitching instructions were worse than the worst IKEA instructions.
@ Rather serious concern about the large door - I've tried a little to correct this by fiddling with the pitching but the door flap seems rather high off the ground and, er, is loose. I have tried to tighten this by pulling the two hooped poles further apart but you have to be careful to ensure that they are still straight - doesn't seem a good idea to bend them out of a straight arch. On the other side of the tent which has no door there is a pegging point on this section but none on the door side (though my Cobra had one). I have a concern that water will get in here and over the top of the bathtub inner. Would be particularly interested in al_yrpal's feedback on this point. I have seen your pic here where all seems tight and neat http://www.flickr.com/photos/alyrpal/56 ... otostream/ though two questions - was that produced by putting a lot of force on the dooor zip? - see above re my concerns about that. Also, the pole at the front seems curved out of the vertical arch at the bottom to produce some of this tension. Is that a concern? I know you can get clip fastener things to add anchor points to tents though adding one here might make getting out a tad tricky. Thoughts from other owners welcome.
@Loop for a light is at the head end - seems eminently sensible - unless I've gone mad my Vango Spirit 200 has it at the end where you'd normally put your feet.
@ Quality tent pegs supplied.
Pack size - pack size is a tad shorter than the Vango which is handy as I mount my tents sideways on the rack. The cirmference of the pack is a fair bit more but I don't think that's any issue at all. I've weighed the two packs myself - Avior X3 is 3kg compared to the Vango's 2.95.kg. I'm not going to worry about that.
Initial thoughts very good though I would appreciate thoughts/expertise on my reservations/doubts.
It's been test erected on my lawn - not sure if I will be able to camp in this year, though after my experiences with Vango probably best to try to get some use/test out of it.
Initial thoughts in no particular order , and it would be particularly interesting to hear by al_yrpal's response as he appears to be an expert on it.
Please note that mine is apparently the 2008 model though I was informed by the retailer (see above) that it is pretty much the same as the current one.
@ Impressed by the general size of it.
@ Somewhat mystifying diagramatical erections instructions but think I did it right.
@ Like the fact that it only uses two poles rather than 3 which you might get on a tent of this size.
@ Like the fact that it has that common Coleman design of being lower at one end - seems sensible.
@ Curious arrangement (which I was aware of from online posts) whereby one end of each pole does not go into an eyelet-strenghthened hole on a strap but into a special sleeve. Slight concern about what might happen if this sleeve gets damaged at the bottom, releasing all of the tension/anchoring in the pole. Surely this wll be harder to repair, especially on site? No idea why they use this system. Also with regard to the issue detailed below where the outer fly seems a bit high off the ground at the door side, this design means that I can't move the fly at all on the arched pole.
@Porch smaller than I would have hoped but maybe I've been spoiled by that aspect at least of the Vango Spirit 200+ . I was really looking for horizontal rather than vertical space here for my endless faffing amongst plastic bags. Can doubtless work with it though and there is penty of room for other luggage in the tent with me - it will only be used solo.
@ Hell it's a curious even ugly looking thing from the front/big end. Like the back end of a bus/truck. Though I have a sneaking admiration for designs that don't pander to conventional ideas of loooks. I prefer function.
@ Rather serious concern (maybe unfounded) about the external zip on the big single door down the side. It seems rather lightweight like something you'd get on a light piece of clothing. Nothing like the very strong zip on my old Coleman Cobra. Will have to be careful with pitching so that it is not overstrained I think. And see my concerns below about the tightness of this section.
@ Initially a bit foxed by the pitching - my old Colman Cobra pitches inner first so you peg out the inner quickly then using snap-in buckles quickly fasten the flysheet to it Really neat. With this, it's the flysheet you are pegging for the structure and the inner then clips to that. I initially clipped the inner to the outer before banging pegs in which means you have to be careful not to hit and maybe bust the clip buckles. Then dawned on me that since the inner is non structural you should clip it to the outer after doing all the pegging. I think. The graphic pitching instructions were worse than the worst IKEA instructions.
@ Rather serious concern about the large door - I've tried a little to correct this by fiddling with the pitching but the door flap seems rather high off the ground and, er, is loose. I have tried to tighten this by pulling the two hooped poles further apart but you have to be careful to ensure that they are still straight - doesn't seem a good idea to bend them out of a straight arch. On the other side of the tent which has no door there is a pegging point on this section but none on the door side (though my Cobra had one). I have a concern that water will get in here and over the top of the bathtub inner. Would be particularly interested in al_yrpal's feedback on this point. I have seen your pic here where all seems tight and neat http://www.flickr.com/photos/alyrpal/56 ... otostream/ though two questions - was that produced by putting a lot of force on the dooor zip? - see above re my concerns about that. Also, the pole at the front seems curved out of the vertical arch at the bottom to produce some of this tension. Is that a concern? I know you can get clip fastener things to add anchor points to tents though adding one here might make getting out a tad tricky. Thoughts from other owners welcome.
@Loop for a light is at the head end - seems eminently sensible - unless I've gone mad my Vango Spirit 200 has it at the end where you'd normally put your feet.
@ Quality tent pegs supplied.
Pack size - pack size is a tad shorter than the Vango which is handy as I mount my tents sideways on the rack. The cirmference of the pack is a fair bit more but I don't think that's any issue at all. I've weighed the two packs myself - Avior X3 is 3kg compared to the Vango's 2.95.kg. I'm not going to worry about that.
Initial thoughts very good though I would appreciate thoughts/expertise on my reservations/doubts.
Sweep
Re: Tent bargain?
Update after more on-lawn tinkering with the Avior X3.
Have solved the apparently too high flysheet issue on the door side by simple adjustment of the pitching. Have done this without undue stress on the door zip. Have decided to always ensure that it's erected without stress on this zip as if you're not careful I think it would be easy to do this as the door is such a large part of the tent at that side, there are only two tent poles(a positive in many ways) and unlike the opposite side there is no intermediate fly-securing ring on the door side. This solution has been produced by having the front pole at that side slightly bending forward at the door side as it approaches the ground, as in al_yrpal's picture linked to above. I have no idea if this is a potential problem, though after recent issues with some Vango poles I'm a bit cautious about poles these days.
I may leave the zipped-in porch groundsheet out on some trips, particularly if it's dry, as the B&Q tarp I use for a groundsheet proector extends a bit into that area anyway.
I like the relatively low number of guy ropes.
The arrangement for connecting/tensioning the inner is a bit faffy as you're sort of doing this under the tent after all the pegs have been banged in (see above for why it seems to be a good idea AFTER the outers pegs are in) but this is a very very minor point.
Slightly puzzled by the small not-terribly secure long thin mesh pocket on the tent carry bag. What's it for? Occurs to me it could be handy for putting a J-cloth in for wiping the tent when it's taken down.
General impression, though I haven't camped in it yet, is that it is excellent and very probably functionally just as good for solo bike-touring as the Vango 200+ which costs way way more.
Have solved the apparently too high flysheet issue on the door side by simple adjustment of the pitching. Have done this without undue stress on the door zip. Have decided to always ensure that it's erected without stress on this zip as if you're not careful I think it would be easy to do this as the door is such a large part of the tent at that side, there are only two tent poles(a positive in many ways) and unlike the opposite side there is no intermediate fly-securing ring on the door side. This solution has been produced by having the front pole at that side slightly bending forward at the door side as it approaches the ground, as in al_yrpal's picture linked to above. I have no idea if this is a potential problem, though after recent issues with some Vango poles I'm a bit cautious about poles these days.
I may leave the zipped-in porch groundsheet out on some trips, particularly if it's dry, as the B&Q tarp I use for a groundsheet proector extends a bit into that area anyway.
I like the relatively low number of guy ropes.
The arrangement for connecting/tensioning the inner is a bit faffy as you're sort of doing this under the tent after all the pegs have been banged in (see above for why it seems to be a good idea AFTER the outers pegs are in) but this is a very very minor point.
Slightly puzzled by the small not-terribly secure long thin mesh pocket on the tent carry bag. What's it for? Occurs to me it could be handy for putting a J-cloth in for wiping the tent when it's taken down.
General impression, though I haven't camped in it yet, is that it is excellent and very probably functionally just as good for solo bike-touring as the Vango 200+ which costs way way more.
Sweep
Re: Tent bargain?
Read through that. My inner tent was hooked in on first pitching and that was that, it has been left in place and pitched together with the flysheet ever since. To pitch it I stretch the inner out insert four pegs then slip the poles in, pitch the guys and go from there. Very quick, less than five minutes. The ally pegs were crap, replaced the five main ones with cheap steel jobs. Fairly easy to adjust. Trick is the get those first four pegs in the right place.
The side door is big, I think you have to be careful with the zips, some people seem to have trouble, but I am always careful and never have. On the X3 the mudguard does sag a bit at the high end and water can drip in at this point which is when you switch to using the end entrance. The vestibule is huuuge, more than enough for my panniers, their contents, the bar bag, tent bag, pots and stove. You can access all your gear from the main compartment very conveniently and it still leaves room to crawl through the centre with ease. But, that is only when you can't use the side entrance. It's so nice to have the tent literally turn into a airy shelter when the side is open, rather than a stuffy tomb. I have never had a problem with a pole, but have only used mine for about 20 nights. I did read of one breakage but this was apparently clumsiness.
It's an impressive practical tent that keeps you dry and seems good in high winds. Doesn't suffer too much from condensation and sag either. Gaudy appearance not good for wild camping and fairly ugly to boot.
No mesh pocket in bag, but sewn in instructions and a little bag containing emergency broken pole sleeve and groundsheet patches.
Al
The side door is big, I think you have to be careful with the zips, some people seem to have trouble, but I am always careful and never have. On the X3 the mudguard does sag a bit at the high end and water can drip in at this point which is when you switch to using the end entrance. The vestibule is huuuge, more than enough for my panniers, their contents, the bar bag, tent bag, pots and stove. You can access all your gear from the main compartment very conveniently and it still leaves room to crawl through the centre with ease. But, that is only when you can't use the side entrance. It's so nice to have the tent literally turn into a airy shelter when the side is open, rather than a stuffy tomb. I have never had a problem with a pole, but have only used mine for about 20 nights. I did read of one breakage but this was apparently clumsiness.
It's an impressive practical tent that keeps you dry and seems good in high winds. Doesn't suffer too much from condensation and sag either. Gaudy appearance not good for wild camping and fairly ugly to boot.
No mesh pocket in bag, but sewn in instructions and a little bag containing emergency broken pole sleeve and groundsheet patches.
Al
Reuse, recycle, to save the planet.... Auctions, Dump, Charity Shops, Facebook Marketplace, Ebay, Boots. Old House, and a Banger ..... And cycle as often as you can...... Every little helps!
Re: Tent bargain?
Yes they were rather long posts.
Yes I've noticed the very very slight issue with water and the side-door (but the advantages of that are as you say massive)- a must to get in though the porch when it's wet. Maybe also if the outside is wet from previous rain as I noticed that you can get a bit of water on the inner.
Checked my verstibule/porch and it seems to be the same size as yours/the current spec (mine is 2008 - see above) - I think I've been spoiled by the porch (but not other things) on the Vango Spirit 200+. I also use a lot of space for junk/faffing and like to keep stuff well away from the sides. I'm sure other solo campers will be fine. And even I will surely manage.
I don't personally find it too gaudy. At least it's a shade (if bright) of green. Its ugliness/plain weirdness from the front I've come to admire.
In short, although I stress that I haven't yet camped in it, it has been subjected to a bit of wind and some rain and I consider it a really well designed tent that a fair bit of original thought has gone into.
Thanks again for the recommendation.
Yes I've noticed the very very slight issue with water and the side-door (but the advantages of that are as you say massive)- a must to get in though the porch when it's wet. Maybe also if the outside is wet from previous rain as I noticed that you can get a bit of water on the inner.
Checked my verstibule/porch and it seems to be the same size as yours/the current spec (mine is 2008 - see above) - I think I've been spoiled by the porch (but not other things) on the Vango Spirit 200+. I also use a lot of space for junk/faffing and like to keep stuff well away from the sides. I'm sure other solo campers will be fine. And even I will surely manage.
I don't personally find it too gaudy. At least it's a shade (if bright) of green. Its ugliness/plain weirdness from the front I've come to admire.
In short, although I stress that I haven't yet camped in it, it has been subjected to a bit of wind and some rain and I consider it a really well designed tent that a fair bit of original thought has gone into.
Thanks again for the recommendation.
Sweep