Vango Spirit 200 + (plus) pole breakage?

[Sweep]

I bought one of these tents fairly recently - very pleased with ease of putting it up/down and general design, but a problem.

Apart from a bit of test use in my sheltered garden, it's only been erected on camp for a total of 5 or 6 days, a total of 3 pitchings, - always well sheltered in ideal conditions.

But a pole has just broken (the "orange-coded" one) for what I can see as no good reason - I am pretty sure I ensured that the pole sections were always properly slotted together and this impression is supported by the nature of the metal shape which sheared off.

I called Vango - they gave me what I now believe is their standard initial response (I didn't know this when I bought it) about poles not being covered by any guarantee (!!) but faced with my outrage at a breakage after such light use they have said that they will send me a spare bit of pole (not a full new one) to fix it.

So far so good but I'm concerned that this may not be a "freak" and that I may have future breakages when I'm not so close to home.

I'm no engineer but I do also wonder about the wisdom of the "gothic arch" pattern to the poles which means that they are not a perfect curve.

Anyone else got this tent/got any feedback/advice?

PS - I don't usually use the extra inside tensioning cord but I asked about this when I got the tent - Vango told me that they were optional/only for use in windy conditions. And it's never been windy.

[Penfold]

Try this site:

http://www.tentspares.co.uk/category/9/ ... -Pole-Ends

I used them for one of my tents...they take a while to get done as each complete pole is custom made they don't simply get a new pole off the shelf.

Worth an e-mail I'd say.

[Sweep]

Thanks for that site Penfold - looks very interesting.

Still interested in any folks' views/advice/erecting and care tips on the particular tent.

[river traveller]

I had a couple of poles break on this tent as well, in my case I think it was because I over tensioned the fly - when it was wet or at night before getting in I would make sure it was reasonably tight (not too tight, just enough to stop puddles and flapping). The poles snapped randomly during the day, once when I was sitting next to the tent, finally realised that the fly was shrinking by quite a large amount as the sun dried it out. Since I have started slackening the outer off every time it starts to dry out I have had no problem.

HTH

[Sweep]

Thanks for that river traveller.

It sounds encouraging, though at the same time it seems to (non engineer) me that they haven't specced the thing properly.

There isn't that much travel in the tensioning bands so one would assume that they should have been designed so that they can't be over-tensioned.. It also sounds as if the poles haven't exactly been over-engineered. I know some have wondered if Vango has changed the pole specs over the years.

I will take care from now on to not put much tension on the tensioning bands.

Two free pole sections have arrived from Vango (55cm x 8.5mm) and I'll try to report back on this thread if there's any significant update.

[bretonbikes]

In my experience the life of poles is pretty much dictated by the radius of the curve. Pre-bent poles help a lot and on the 200 that 'gothic arch' piece should have a similar effect in reducing the severity of the curve. Looking at pictures the bend radius looks about OK for a non-prebent pole so I guess you've just been unlucky, but it'll probably start breaking them again after about 10 weeks use (putting up and down each day) at a guess. It's just one of the problems of alloy poles, and yes they usually break when you are just sitting next to the tent innocently:-) It's just fatigue - they've had enough:-)

Looking at the construction of such poles most appear to come from the same few Chinese factories - you will see that the thin ferrule is held in place by being pushed into the pole section and then four small dimples being bashed into it to grip. Often with new poles you'll see tiny cracks here, and with time those cracks will open so it's worth keeping an eye on them to predict when they are about to go. This is where most failures occur. By definition then the worst poles will be those with lots of joints in order to make a shorter pole - try to avoid such designs. Some poles (like DAC) are now an interference fit rather than dimples and they do seem to last better.

[Sweep]

Well not disputing your expertise bretonbikes but that sure isn't an encouraging reply

I must say that the poles (including the replacement - same spec of course) don't look strong at all to me. I'm no fan of super-lightweight stuff on bikes (especially touring) so does anyone know of suppliers of stronger sections (8.5mm diameter of course) so that I can gradually rebuild the tent as it breaks on a 10-week cycle?

[bretonbikes]

Well not disputing your expertise bretonbikes but that sure isn't an encouraging reply

I must say that the poles (including the replacement - same spec of course) don't look strong at all to me. I'm no fan of super-lightweight stuff on bikes (especially touring) so does anyone know of suppliers of stronger sections (8.5mm diameter of course) so that I can gradually rebuild the tent as it breaks on a 10-week cycle?

I'm with you about superlight stuff - give me a bit more space every time:-) I don't want to sound like an ad for Robens tents, but we've used them this year and not one has broken a pole through the season - that's a unique record - they use the DAC type sections, the poles are quite long and the radius not too tight - http://www.robens.de/en/Products/Tents/ ... odge2.aspx

Replacing all your poles will probably cost as much as a new tent. As I said the 200 doesn't look as bad as some so should be pretty reliable, but many tent manufacturers work on the principle that 95% of their customers will use a tent for a couple of weeks a year so by the time the poles start falling apart they are out of guarentee - the attraction is that tight bent poles mean nice vertical walls, good headroom etc. The answer is the pre-bent poles and for the sake of what must be a couple of quid a tent I cannot imagine why they don't do it. In fact I'm thinking of how to pre-bend poles for my own tents, though the Robens experience has rather taken away the need.

Just to cheer you up further, 10 weeks in full sunlight has most polyester tent fabrics well on the way to falling apart anyway - most after 20 weeks you can just pull apart like paper:-) Again the Robens don't seem to have faded as badly as most and that is a sure sign the fabric is good.

[Sweep]

[
Just to cheer you up further, 10 weeks in full sunlight has most polyester tent fabrics well on the way to falling apart anyway - most after 20 weeks you can just pull apart like paper:-)

gee bretonbikes - thanks again.

I was kinda thinking of heading to the Med in it sometimes - guess that shortens its life still further. I guess the only way round this is to keep moving/live-camp by night so that it's never left in camp during the day.

On the weight/space thing, the Spirit 200+ is plenty big enough and packs small but I would have no problem at all if it gained durability by it being a bit heavier. Might also make it cheaper of course - lightweight bike stuff often carries a premium. No great point me saving a tiny bit of weight - have been known to set off with three separate stoves and three separate power sources!

[Stradageek]

Vango are mid-range tents (Peakland are cheaper, Outwell more expensive) I've always liked them but nothing is flawless. Out Icarus 300 survived winds that blew 50% of the tents on the campsite flat (breaking many poles in the process) and the apocalyptic rain that left Cheltenham Racecourse awash on the BH weekend. A peformance spoilt only by a small door leak that a note saying "For optimum weather protection ensure that the door and inner fly screen are both zipped" (which we did) suggests they knew about. Looks like you may have hit another fault but a more serious one this time. Thanks for the information but I don't think I'll abandon Vango just yet.

[bretonbikes]

Just to reiterate - I'm not having a pop at Vango - in fact the design (as I said) looks better than most. The pole breakage thing is general across all tents with alloy poles in small radius bends unless pre-bent.

[drossall]

Maybe we should go back to the old design with uprights and (usually) a ridge. IIRC Force Tens could be pitched without a ridge to save weight in mild conditions.

[bretonbikes]

Maybe we should go back to the old design with uprights and (usually) a ridge. IIRC Force Tens could be pitched without a ridge to save weight in mild conditions.

Actually there are some very interesting tents being made using walking poles - http://www.robens.de/en/Products/Tents/ ... rcury.aspx looks really interesting - any straight pole would do the job. You could rig something using a cheap fishing pole for example.

[Sweep]

Update, and not a nice one I'm afraid.

Sorted the rear pole problem by cutting the new section to length with a Dremel and then smoothing (is it advisable to take a hacksaw on camp?) the end. Went on another trip of what was meant to be four nights. Erected in perfect weather conditions in a single spot on a campsite - it's never been free-camping. On the morning after the third night there was a crack from the front of the tent - pole sheared and the sharp razor then created cut through the sleeve. Only way to then get the stuck pole out was to remove the shock cord (it would be helpful if info on how to do this was in the tent instructions) and take the pole out in bits.

Using the tent for the last night didn't seem like a good idea as it seemed to me that even using the metal repair sleeve and strong tape I had deliberately brought, the pole sleeve would get damaged further and the tent would start to tear itself apart. So abandoned the camp - farmer/camspite owner refunded my last night's money and was as mystified as me - weather calm all the time I and my tent (described as "lightweight, reliable, robust" by Vango) had been there.
.
I couldn't possibly have taken more care putting the tent up - anyone who had watched me would have thought I was manufacturing the thing - poles all pushed through as recommended (ie: not pulled) and I even carefully examined all of the pole sections for signs of wear as I put them together. Cords not overtightened at all. After all the poles were in and the tent was up I virtually caressed the pole sleeves to check that all sections inside were perfectly joined.

So apart from a test pitch before each trip, the tent has been erected 4 times for 9 nights only. Unfit for purpose is the only conclusion it seems to me - at least on the one I was sold. Retail price of this tent is currently £300.

It is now in no state to use.

I have been in touch with outdoorworlddirect (they have been particularly helpful so far so fingers crossed)and Vango - currently hopeful that this will be sorted on the basis that there was something wrong with the manufacture of the particular tent I bought. This would be kind of supported by the fact that whoever put the thing together hadn't even managed to put the rear pitching buckles on properly - they cannot be used as detailed in the tent's pitching instructions and are simply decorative. If Vango is seeking to claim a weight reduction for a future model they may as well take them off.

Will report back when I learn more.

[Sweep]

Looking at the construction of such poles most appear to come from the same few Chinese factories - you will see that the thin ferrule is held in place by being pushed into the pole section and then four small dimples being bashed into it to grip. Often with new poles you'll see tiny cracks here, and with time those cracks will open so it's worth keeping an eye on them to predict when they are about to go. This is where most failures occur. By definition then the worst poles will be those with lots of joints in order to make a shorter pole - try to avoid such designs. Some poles (like DAC) are now an interference fit rather than dimples and they do seem to last better.

As I say I'm hopeful of the retailer and Vango sorting this, but on the design issues you mention, I have no idea what DAC poles are. A manufacturer?

I was wondering if short section poles may be an issue as I noticed that the new 55cm sections of pole which Vango sent me seemed to flex rather more than the shorter sections used on the tent - the 55cm length of course was cut down to the appropriate length and as I may have noted elsewhere the lengths are not all the same. I rather had the impression that the shorter lengths didn't flex as much and instead transmitted more force to the join between the ferrule and the "outer" of the next pole. In both cases it was this "outer" which broke. The ferrules lived merrily on.

I don't have all of the tent poles in front of me at the moment but yes I did note that many seemed to have the ferrules fastened to the rest of the pole by the "dimples" method. This might be something to do with the fact that the pole metal is colour coded but the ferrule is bog standard silver.

The replacement 55cm sections are completely silver and there are no dimples that I can see where the ferrule joins the rest of the pole - maybe they are interference fit.

I should stress though that I inspected all the poles for damage, saw no cracks or anything, and no ferrules have failed.