Anyone got cold weather camping tips?

[shane]

Ok I'm starting to get bored of Africa and I'm dreaming up new stuff, and stuff of the cold variety.

Anyone got cold weather camping tips (-20 to -30) I already know don't eat yellow snow and don't lick your bike frame

I already have experience to round about -5c. But what is modern thinking on Down vs synthetic (condensation etc), Can a Rohloff handle really cold stuff, and any thoughts on a tent might be nice, I quite like Hilleberg tents but dont like the price, an option could be to buy the Hubba hubba HP inner for my existing hubba hubba. Though I find the MSR outer tents cut quite high from the ground for bad weather....

I'm planning some Hiking in the UK in January and maybe a shake down ride somewhere cold in Europe in February , should that all be a success I have big plans for next winter...

Thanks

[Barrenfluffit]

Personally no. This guy cycled across siberia so might have some experience. http://www.roblilwall.com/contact
I think that the change in performance of materials is a significant factor.

[takeonafrica]

Shane -
I forgot to mention to check out Tom Allen's blog. He did a winter trip in Scandinavia and also wrote a magazine article about the gear he used / would have liked - I'll email it to you.

[phil parker]

Firstly, I think that good quality materials and equipment are more important at the colder temperatures and preferably using specific-to-type with manufacturers recommendations to be considered where applicable. I once had a pair of boots that were guaranteed with thermal properties down to -20 degs - and sure enough, I started to get cold feet at -25 degs!

I don't think it matters whether or not you choose down or synthetic - I used and preferred down because of volume to weight properties, but you do have to take more care with it especially in terms of keeping it dry etc.

As for camping tips: Having snow-flaps on your tent is very useful and helps to keep the tent warmer preventing draughts. Take a small shovel: you will use it and might need it! A smaller internal volume of the tent is quicker and easier to warm up and stay warm comparatively to the outside. A small gas operated tilley lamp will help to warm up the tent when you first set up and make it comfortable to get changed and do all your admin. Depending on the conditions outside it is better to cook: a, outside; b, in the awning; c, in the tent as a last option, but steam and vapours are unwanted - and needless to say the ultimate care is required! The condensation inside the tent will freeze overnight and in the morning will shake off (or anytime in strong winds) and things will get wet - care is required with this...I used to put my sleeping bag inside a lightweight Gore-Tex bivi bag, but some of the better bags have a shower-proof exterior.

Finally - everything takes a lot, lot, longer in these conditions, so allow extra time for every task!

[BeeKeeper]

Have a look at the last post on this: http://forums.mtbr.com/drivetrain-shift ... 17172.html

Which recommends 10ml of kerosine added to the Rohloff hub to thin the oil for temperatures down to -30C. Elsewhere I have read the standard Rohloff oil is good down to -15C below which it gets thick and there is a lot of drag.

The problem with any winter activity in the UK is the short daylight period - especially in the north where first light could be 08:00 and last light 17:00 or worse, depending on location and exact date. This will mean you will be spending longer in your tent than out of it doing things so you will need to be prepared for the long periods of darkness with, for example, reading matter, radio etc.

[boblo]

Anyone got cold weather camping tips (-20 to -30) I already know don't eat yellow snow and don't lick your bike frame

Errrr, don't I can't think if any more unpleasant combination than biking all day in sub zero then camping at minus 30°C. My very cold experiences are limited to mountaineering trips. Everything is such a PIA, melting water, keeping your kit dry, getting ready in the morning whilst being showered with last nights frozen condensation.... Add in a few crap days weather and...

Good luck tho

[Vorpal]

Thar be forums for that, too... http://www.wintertrekking.com/ Have fun!

[HPFlashman]

Clothing: Do the layering - wear wool for the base and mediate layers, windproofs as outer, if I use one of the giant jackets either down or similiar syntetic jacket, its for laying up/staying still. Basically if you freeze a bit before setting out you`re generally clad correctly. Also carrying a brush to use on snowy clothing and boots before entering the tent makes for dry nights.

Burners: best bet are some sort of Kerosene burner. Pressurised gas (butane/propane and mixes of these) and meth spirits burners are a pain in the temp. segment your describing. Gasoline may be good, but I have no experience with these, even if I have a couple of multifuel burners in the inventory - I dont like the gasolines handling characteristics as a burner fuel. Also well worth carrying are some sort of plate to place the burner on so that it dont melt down in the snow and tipping your long awaited for hot meal out in the snow. Gaslighters can be used if carried in a pocket near to body so that it leeches a bit of bodyheat, matches are good, Zippos are workable. Best bet are to carry more than one sort of firestarter.

Anything powered by alkaline batteries will have horrible characteristics if not worn between layers near the body so that the batteries have some sort of heating.

Some pointers to start with, off the top of my head.

[eileithyia]

yep it's called B&B.
Having had to wait for tent to defrost so it could be packed I reckoned I could have been on the road 1-2 hours earlier had we been in B&B and not hanging around.

[shane]

Great stuff folks, thanks.

More news and maybe a new blog page when I get back to the world of broadband internet and Real Ale

[Graham O]

We supply a lot of Polar expeditions at work and the single biggest advice while you are moving is to move slowly and be cool. If you warm up too much, you'll sweat and that is a real pain. When you stop moving, you should need to put an extra layer on almost immediately. Keep the sweat out of your clothing and down vs synthetic comes down to weight bulk etc.
When you camp, consider a cold camp, i.e. cook your food and drinks before putting your sleeping bag inside the tent and sitting in it. It's much colder, but it prevents steam (from cooking) getting into your bag and icing up internally. It's a cold way of living, but it helps to keep the nights warmer. Keep all snow and moisture in the tent to a minimum.

But it all depends on how long you are going to be out for.

[shane]

Thanks Graham,

I think my cycling style is quite well suited actually, a late starter and I rarely stop for more than 5 minutes, I'm a nice slow plodder, cycling all day but I get there in the end. Seems Like a good way to stay warm.

I guess the secret with down is just don't let it get wet ( fat chance...).

http://www.wintertrekking.com/ Is proving to be a very interesting read. The plan is a 1-2 week shake down ride in Feb, though will of course take a hotel every couple of nights. Have big plans for next winter if the shake down is a success.

Thanks

[Graham O]

I guess the secret with down is just don't let it get wet ( fat chance...).

Below about -15C, there is very little water from the environment, even if it is snowing. The problem comes when it thaws, hence keep snow out of your tent, and control your sweat production. Liquid water has a lot of trouble getting through current generation sleeping bag fabrics, but moisture vapour gets through quite easily. At very low temperatures, consider perhaps 250 - 500g a week of ice build up in your sleeping bag.

[LollyKat]

Have a look at the Snugpak Softie range? A synthetic filling but much more like down in handling and performance than most. I have a summer bag and find it very impressive.

[Graham O]

With sleeping bags, only compare the temperature ratings on bags tested to the same standard, EN13537. This tends to produce figures which are less extreme than those assessed or made up by manufacturers. In practice, a non tested bag rated at -30C may appear to be as warm as a tested -20C bag to the same person, i.e. the non tested bag is a bit optimistic in thier temperature claims. Most European bags are tested to the same standard, (although I'm not sure if Snugpak are and their temperature claims used to be very optimistic) so take care if comparing it to an American or non tested bag.

(Just re-read that and I'm not sure I even follow it myself. Hope it's understandable.)