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Re: Standing water across road, motorist without considerati
Posted: 26 Nov 2012, 1:49pm
by sore thumb
Coffee wrote:Isn't it a no-no to have flashing lights on when riding without street lighting?
What has that got to do with bad driving?
That's a normal blame the cyclist response, or from someone who dislikes flashing lights.
I had a flashing light on my helmet and a constant light on my bars.
Re: Standing water across road, motorist without considerati
Posted: 26 Nov 2012, 1:54pm
by sore thumb
eileithyia wrote:TBH I do not think many drivers use many thought processes other than what is directly in front ot their nose. They do not anticipate ahead, they do not anticpate what their actions will mean to other road users.
I watched the video and quite honestly, like others felt it was a mish mash of wet conditions, wet roads and glaring lights and darkness. From the footage seen it was notpssible to see there was standing water until you stopped and the car went through it creating a wave.
It might have been more obvious at the actual spot. I agree drivers should have more consideration but it is not always easy.
On Saturday afternoon / evening I drove the M6 in that rain, mostly at 50-65mph depending on conditions and other road users. Because, as the driver I was concentrating on so many things; other drivers, seeing what was happening in front and to either side, watching my mirrors, the constant windscreen wipers and the disgrace of drivers being very slow to put their lights on. It was my son that often spotted where there was standing water.
On a similar vein; we were out yesterday in south warks area, while not particularly flooded there were places where there was some standing water on the roads we used, one significant place where the water was across the road, but it was clear it was shallower in the middle, most traffic was alread slowing down and going through carefully, often one at time from either direction, as we approached I signalled intent to move out to cars behind who duly slowed down, cars in fron also slowed and let us ride thru with out also trying to race past.
Adopting this strategy at all the standing water spots we got thru mostly unscathed, sadly Phil stopped to add to the water table and while catching us up did have one inconsiderate driver.
Don't forget the view was not as bad as what the camera shows.
Cameras do not pick up images very good in dark light conditions.
I can tell you that if I was in a car I would have seen that water no problem.
I had already passed one flood so others could be expected, and yes another one came along.
Re: Standing water across road, motorist without considerati
Posted: 26 Nov 2012, 3:51pm
by iviehoff
Coffee wrote:Isn't it a no-no to have flashing lights on when riding without street lighting?
Boris Bikes have always-on flashing lights. Which has established them as normality here in London regardless of anything else. Not even the platform attendants at London railway stations are surprised by them any more.
Obviously if you are riding in a dark place you need a light to see where you are going as well.
Re: Standing water across road, motorist without considerati
Posted: 26 Nov 2012, 4:10pm
by Vantage
sore thumb wrote:
I can tell you that if I was in a car I would have seen that water no problem.
You must have superman style eyesight then. I can say for certain, that as a passenger in a car (and therefor free to focus on whatever I like), at night, on a well lit road, with rain on the windscreen and the wipers on and travelling at traffic jam pace (5-10mph) I have some considerable difficulty telling standing water and normal wet road apart.
Re: Standing water across road, motorist without considerati
Posted: 26 Nov 2012, 6:50pm
by sore thumb
IrishBill76 wrote:sore thumb wrote:
I can tell you that if I was in a car I would have seen that water no problem.
You must have superman style eyesight then. I can say for certain, that as a passenger in a car (and therefor free to focus on whatever I like), at night, on a well lit road, with rain on the windscreen and the wipers on and travelling at traffic jam pace (5-10mph) I have some considerable difficulty telling standing water and normal wet road apart.
Not superman, if I could not see properly I would have drove to the conditions, and not drive at speed in bad conditions. So I would have seen the flood.
You don't have to be superman to have common sense.
Even if this driver did not see the flood, he still should not be driving in those conditions at that speed.
Re: Standing water across road, motorist without considerati
Posted: 26 Nov 2012, 7:26pm
by 661-Pete
It is true that deliberately or negligently drenching another road user with water comes under the "Driving without Due Care..." etc. category. But a near miss, such as appears to have happened here (can't make out anything of the video) is unlikely to be so dealt with. With all respect, I would suggest dropping the matter. The police have plenty of other things to deal with, such as that idiot minicab driver who took me out and could easily have put me in a wooden box, last Thursday. That's the sort of character I want the Police to deal with...
And:
sore thumb wrote:I just need to try and remind myself that this is a pro cycling forum sometimes ..........
I was not aware that being pro- or anti- anything was a pre-requisite for joining this forum. In fact I assumed it was open to anyone who abides by the forum rules...
Re: Standing water across road, motorist without considerati
Posted: 26 Nov 2012, 7:39pm
by thirdcrank
The elephant in the room here - or rather the hippopotamus wallowing in the lagoon - is why these areas of surface water are allowed to persist. I've posted before that I only remember two facts learned from primary school. The relevant one here being the importance the Romans attached to draining water from their roads.
Some of this is caused by years of neglect, of course, brought about by reluctance to spend money on the equivalent of a stictch in time. On the other hand, it's quite common to see water ponding on new roads.
I've walked to the other side of the M62 and back this evening. On the infamous Gildersome roundabout (only reopened within the last couple of years after being completely redone) there are two places where the entire width of the footway is being splashed by traffic going through surface water. A length of the A 62 Gelderd Road leading to the roundbout haqs been closed each night for the past couple of weeks for planing and resurfacing. There's an area of ponding there as well. I'll go back and look in daylight but it looks as though there is no gulley grate at the lowest part of a dip in the road. I suppose the Romans must have taken many of their skills home with them, highway engineering being one.
Re: Standing water across road, motorist without considerati
Posted: 26 Nov 2012, 9:51pm
by sore thumb
661-Pete wrote:It is true that deliberately or negligently drenching another road user with water comes under the "Driving without Due Care..." etc. category. But a near miss, such as appears to have happened here (can't make out anything of the video) is unlikely to be so dealt with. With all respect, I would suggest dropping the matter. The police have plenty of other things to deal with, such as that idiot minicab driver who took me out and could easily have put me in a wooden box, last Thursday. That's the sort of character I want the Police to deal with...
And:
sore thumb wrote:I just need to try and remind myself that this is a pro cycling forum sometimes ..........
I was not aware that being pro- or anti- anything was a pre-requisite for joining this forum. In fact I assumed it was open to anyone who abides by the forum rules...
Does no one read anything. I have nothing to drop because I have not taken any action against the driver. I did not get wet.
I am just trying to show how inconsiderate drivers can be against other road users.
As this is a cycling forum I thought it would be pro cycling, however I find you would get a more positive pro cycling comments on a motoring forum.
But even cyclists don't like cyclists I have found.
Re: Standing water across road, motorist without considerati
Posted: 26 Nov 2012, 10:06pm
by jezer
I posted on a local newspaper website earlier that in the past roads were kept clear by a local person sweeping the verges and keeping the drains free. It seemed to work then. I don't remember flooding in those days, but perhaps my memory is at fault. I am sure I never got held up cycling then.
Re: Standing water across road, motorist without considerati
Posted: 26 Nov 2012, 10:08pm
by Ayesha
IMHO, riding a bike in the kind of weather we've been having lately, getting soaked is an accepted hazard of the sport.
Re: Standing water across road, motorist without considerati
Posted: 26 Nov 2012, 10:11pm
by meic
I certainly remember my car getting submerged enough to fill up with water on a few occasions in 1991/2.
I had visions of it floating off down the road in the night.
Re: Standing water across road, motorist without considerati
Posted: 26 Nov 2012, 10:19pm
by jezer
Well, I'me talking about the 50's. Oh err, I'm getting rather old!
Re: Standing water across road, motorist without considerati
Posted: 26 Nov 2012, 10:21pm
by meic
I had a phone call off my mum, she and another old lady were waiting at a bus stop which had a puddle near it, the bus doesnt stop unless you hail it down. She got soaked, she said they all just drove through it none going to the other side of the road, slowing down or making any effort to avoid splashing them. This is not a busy road. Unfortunately she had to stand at the side to be seen by the bus driver and can not leap back and forth with her "zimmerframe".
Re: Standing water across road, motorist without considerati
Posted: 27 Nov 2012, 8:26am
by eileithyia
jezer wrote:I posted on a local newspaper website earlier that in the past roads were kept clear by a local person sweeping the verges and keeping the drains free. It seemed to work then. I don't remember flooding in those days, but perhaps my memory is at fault. I am sure I never got held up cycling then.
Remember a cycling friend telling me how when he was a farm labourer, it was the job of the farm labourers to clear field drains etc., in the winter to keep water flowing. It meant they were gainfully employed at a time when there were less jobs to do on the farm, increasing mechanisation = less farm workers = no idle hands to be occupied.
Drains as we know get choked with leaves at this time of year, one previous autumn I complained about the amount of crushed, wet mashed up slippy leaves on my commute home and was told it was on the schedule to be cleared but they had a route they followed and it would still be several days before that particular road came up on the list....
I guess at the end of day it comes down to resources / money / recession etc., it is a pity they cannot offer some temporary work to people like my son to help clear roads / drains to reduce flooding.
Re: Standing water across road, motorist without considerati
Posted: 27 Nov 2012, 12:50pm
by AlaninWales
sore thumb wrote:As this is a cycling forum I thought it would be pro cycling, however I find you would get a more positive pro cycling comments on a motoring forum.
But even cyclists don't like cyclists I have found.
Which posters were anti-cycling? Many commented that the video did not show the problem you describe, due to poor light and lots of shiny-black water. AFAIR no-one doubted what you said, simply saying that there was little to proceed with (which you appear to have decided yourself). What sort of "pro-cycling" reaction were you expecting / looking for?
eileithyia wrote:I guess at the end of day it comes down to resources / money / recession etc., it is a pity they cannot offer some temporary work to people like my son to help clear roads / drains to reduce flooding.
Spend money to save infrastructure? That's as radical in idea as designing and building roads with drains! Shame on you for suggesting it in these strapped economic times (it would take money that is better spent in bonuses for senior management, for saving such a lot of money by not spending it to preserve infrastructure).