Cycling UK Forum

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/20 ... tion-plan/

Obama is trying to do something.... All my American friends are very sceptical as to how far he will get. But, being in his second term, he has nothing to loose.

Al

al_yrpal wrote:Obama is trying to do something....
Al

Obama is always trying to do something(good),but in a rank capitalist society he's up against big business with big bucks!

reohn2 wrote:

al_yrpal wrote:Obama is trying to do something....
Al

Obama is always trying to do something(good),but in a rank capitalist society he's up against big business with big bucks!

Tell me about it, one of my American friends works for this guy. http://www.independent.co.uk/news/busin ... 82977.html

Al

Vorpal wrote: ... please don't stereotype Americans. .... Many Americans would be insulted by the idea that they have a romantic fixation with their "gun-totin'" past. A vocal minority of people who act like a stereotype don't represent the nation....

Sorry to return to this from page 1 (although it was only posted yesterday.) I've been reminded by this of a couple of conversations I've had over the years. Almost fifty years ago, I was on a train journey in France and I ended up acting as interpreter for an American gent. After the ice had been broken by my establishing communications between him and all the ticket inspectors, customs etc., we had a bit of chat. For some reason - perhaps it was topical at the time - I mentioned the widespread private possession of firearms in the USA. He laughed off my concerns, suggesting that I had been watching too many gangster films or even westerns. A few weeks after that conversation, I was sitting in a hotel in France translating a French newspaper for an English commercial traveller: we were both stunned to hear of the assassination of JFK. I can't help feeling that there may be a flutter of ostrich tailfeathers. I fear that good people are avoiding confronting a real problem.

On the subject of the effects of widespread gun ownership, here's a link to a conversation I had with a couple of senior police officers from a South American country, where it seems there are plenty of guns in circulation:

viewtopic.php?f=15&t=68389&p=585723&hilit=smash#p585723

I keep hearing that some Americans are calling for the kids to be armed as the answer.

That is crazy, that is as dumb as suggesting that everyone drive their kids to school after one child gets knocked down by a car near the school gates.

I think that if something is a part of your culture, you dont see the faults as being from that, so much as the person who did the deed.

A terrible and sad tragedy, but perhaps another perspective about the USA and guns should be seen from near the bottom of this article.

http://synonblog.dailymail.co.uk/2012/1 ... -guns.html

Other articles I have read in relation to this tragedy have made strong links to many of the recent mass killers being on a variety 'cocktail' of prescribed drugs (anti depressants etc) when they committed their crimes, but this seems to be over looked in the immediate aftermath of this and other similar events.

One thing I do know is that guns are dangerous, but a gun to someone who is drunk, on drugs (whether legal or not) or both, is likely to be a potential recipe for disaster.

RIP

Here is a picture I took of a legally held weapon in Ohio in 2010.

This gun was the personal property of its owner & traveled with him in his car & was in his domestic residence when he was at home. IIRC it is an M6 semi-automatic, firing Nato rounds.

I can understand the use for 'sporting guns' & certain guns for the target shooting enthusiast but I find it quite scary that weapons like this can be held in private hands. I cannot see any justification for this. Until laws are brought in to control / ban such weapons in private ownership I see little chance of an improvement in the situation in the States.

meic wrote:I keep hearing that some Americans are calling for the kids to be armed as the answer.

Anything is possible given that in 1999 George W Bush, as Governor for Texas, passed a law permitting concealed weapons to be carried in church. Obama promised some controls when he came into power, but according to a newspaper article I read a month or so ago, the number of guns sold has about doubled and there was even a case of a dentist dropping his practice to open a gun shop because it was more lucrative.

One place I worked, a number of people had concealed gun permits which allowed them to carry weapons. One chap told me that several times a year when walking his dog on the beach of an evening he would feel it necessary to put his hand on his weapon. This is a man who would otherwise appear to be quite sane. In the same area they get hikers shot on a regular basis as 10 year olds (from memory) are permitted to go hunting deer. Almost every day on the news there would be a report of an injury caused by somebody in the street or a downstairs apartment firing a gun at random and the bullet passing through the floor/ceiling/walls and hitting somebody who just happened to be around. On holidays such as independence day there are news media requests not to fire guns into the air. People seem to forget that what goes up has to come down. All of this I experienced living along the west coast where it is comparatively sane.

I think they need more personality checks, restrictions on how they are stored (to keep them away from children just like you do a bottle of bleach), more safety training and restriction on the types of guns they can have.

Trigger wrote: ...the figures for yearly gun deaths ...

United States - 11,127

tatanab wrote: .... Almost every day on the news there would be a report of an injury caused by somebody in the street or a downstairs apartment firing a gun at random and the bullet passing through the floor/ceiling/walls and hitting somebody who just happened to be around. ,,,.

A quick bit of mental arithmetic suggests about thirty deaths a day. The number of incidents must be smaller, since there will be some where more than one person is killed. Lets assume that is around twenty five every day or more than one every hour. If I listen to the traffic situation on local radio, they have fewer traffic incidents to report. Unless I've completely misunderstood the figures, being killed by a gun isn't newsworthy.

This thread has reminded me of a colleague who was killed by a shotgun at close range in the late 1960's. She was a very experienced sergeant, having spent a lot of her career in the CID I believe. Anyway, she was on holiday in Scotland and she climbed over some sort of a fence and the trigger of her gun got entangled in barbed wire. As she was holding the end of the barrels when she tried to free it, she accidentally died at her own hands. Not as emotive as being shot trying to arrest baddies but with a similar result. It just illustrates how more guns probably leads to more accidental deaths.

thirdcrank wrote:

Trigger wrote: ...the figures for yearly gun deaths ...

United States - 11,127

tatanab wrote: .... Almost every day on the news there would be a report of an injury caused by somebody in the street or a downstairs apartment firing a gun at random and the bullet passing through the floor/ceiling/walls and hitting somebody who just happened to be around. ,,,.

A quick bit of mental arithmetic suggests about thirty deaths a day. The number of incidents must be smaller, since there will be some where more than one person is killed. Lets assume that is around twenty five every day or more than one every hour. If I listen to the traffic situation on local radio, they have fewer traffic incidents to report. Unless I've completely misunderstood the figures, being killed by a gun isn't newsworthy.

This thread has reminded me of a colleague who was killed by a shotgun at close range in the late 1960's. She was a very experienced sergeant, having spent a lot of her career in the CID I believe. Anyway, she was on holiday in Scotland and she climbed over some sort of a fence and the trigger of her gun got entangled in barbed wire. As she was holding the end of the barrels when she tried to free it, she accidentally died at her own hands. Not as emotive as being shot trying to arrest baddies but with a similar result. It just illustrates how more guns probably leads to more accidental deaths.

You should not walk with a closed, loaded shotgun. It should always be broken when you are on the move.

The Mechanic wrote: ...You should not walk with a closed, loaded shotgun. It should always be broken when you are on the move.

Sorry for not making it clear that my post was not a request for advice on the safe handling of firearms.

Watching CNN, sales of bulletproof rucksacks for kids are soaring!

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/bulletproof-backpack-sales-spike-newtown-article-1.1224267

Audax67 wrote:

meic wrote:.22" can still kill and it is roughly that which is the NATO standard since the 1980's.

Kinda suspected that might be the case.

Similar in size, completely different in application. The highly popular .22LR is what most "plinkers" use, yes it's still a bullet and yes it's still dangerous, but compared to .223 Remington/5.56 NATO it's not even in the same ball park:

thirdcrank wrote: Anyway, she was on holiday in Scotland and she climbed over some sort of a fence and the trigger of her gun got entangled in barbed wire. As she was holding the end of the barrels when she tried to free it, she accidentally died at her own hands. Not as emotive as being shot trying to arrest baddies but with a similar result. It just illustrates how more guns probably leads to more accidental deaths.

Doubtless a tragedy for her and her family but if she was that daft she'd probably have found some other way to accidentally do herself in.

The right to bear arms passed into the US constitution in about 1790. Perhaps they should restrict gun ownership to the type available then, single shot, muzzle loading and almost all smooth bore.

Maybe the right to bear arms should be limited to swords.