From an HGV perspective video

[Ayesha]

Dangerous by design?

One horse is ‘Dangerous by design’ because it is strong enough to pull a man along against his will. Two horses, and a man stands no chance of holding a cart stationary against the horses.
Eight horses was the preferred ‘Mail coach’ team, so each horse was pulling 1/8 of the weight of the vehicle.
Nowadays, we talk about dozens of horse power. Vehicle weights are up to and beyond 30 tonnes. There is nothing out there that is ‘Not dangerous’ except the ¼ HP ( one man power ) vehicle that can be held back by a man holding onto the back of the saddle.

[hexhome]

The HGV was making no attempt to slow down.

Hence the Police investigation. The video was a 22 second glimpse at a 50 second incident.

[hexhome]

Dangerous by design?

One horse is ‘Dangerous by design’ because it is strong enough to pull a man along against his will. Two horses, and a man stands no chance of holding a cart stationary against the horses.
Eight horses was the preferred ‘Mail coach’ team, so each horse was pulling 1/8 of the weight of the vehicle.
Nowadays, we talk about dozens of horse power. Vehicle weights are up to and beyond 30 tonnes. There is nothing out there that is ‘Not dangerous’ except the ¼ HP ( one man power ) vehicle that can be held back by a man holding onto the back of the saddle.

The problem is perception! Therefore thanks to perception, HGVs and Cyclists are dangerous. Everything has a risk, we all know that cycling is safer than visiting the bathroom or walking, but try persuading non cyclists. In 2010, HGVs were involved in half the number of injury accidents compared to cycles. The numbers of HGVs has steadily dropped and is currently 7% lower than a decade ago. This is mostly due to increases in efficiency.

Regularly, I see cyclists put themselves into insane positions with HGVs just like this - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=leW8Mx1GciE When you watch this you have to percieve that HGVs are dangerous!

I know that most of us would not ride like this, and can assure you that most HGV drivers would drive like that - but!

[hexhome]

This looks as if it could be interesting (so far have only skimmed it) http://www.transportenvironment.org/sit ... _final.pdf

This blunt (brick-like) shape of the cab unit has numerous disdavantages. It limits the scope
to improve aerodynamic performance, which result in high fuel consumption and, as a
consequence, in high emissions of greenhouse gases and air pollutants from lorries. It also
limits the driver’s field of direct vision, thus increasing the likelihood of accidents (so-called
‘active safety’ problem). In addition, the engine is directly behind the front bumper, without
any crumple zone or crash box to absorb collision impacts and to diminish damage to the
driver if an accident occurs (the so-called ‘passive safety’ problem).
Allowing for longer cabins would enable lorrymakers to make cabins much safer, more
aerodynamic and hence more environmentally friendly.
With both these safety and environmental opportunities in mind, T&E commissioned an
independent study from the automotive research institute FKA5
aimed at identifying the
optimal shape and dimensions of a lorry cabin (the part of the lorry that pulls the trailer),
integrating new aerodynamic solutions and improving both active and passive safety.
It is important to note, that just simply allowing for longer cabins will not, by itself, lead to the
benefits identified in the FKA study. Additional design and safety rules would be needed to
exploit the full potential of longer cabins. However, changing the allowable cabin size is a
necessary prerequisite; without it these benefits are unattainable.

So they are going to slope the front a little more and lower the bottom edge of the windscreen by making lorries 80cms longer. I think that this has already been tried

I could do with them making my lorry 80cms shorter

[Mike Sales]

To say that both HGVs and bikes are dangerous is to combine two different meanings of dangerous. Transitive and intransitive. This is an important distinction. Lorries are dangerous for those around them, bikes for those on them.

[tykeboy2003]

HGVs are TOTALLY unnecessary. The Victorians invented the perfect system for moving bulk goods round the country its called the RAILWAY. Transshipment at stations and goods yards etc may be labour intensive, but surely it would be better to pay people to do these jobs rather than give them benefits for doing nothing?

Of course my argument is based upon the railway system we used to have before the road haulage lobby destroyed our wonderful rail network in the 60s with their low-cost operation massively subsidied at public cost by the provision of an essentially FREE transport infrastructure. The railways have to pay for theirs.

The only down side being that we wouldn't have the lovely traffic-free routes like the Tissington Trail etc to cycle on.

[Ayesha]

Dangerous by design?

One horse is ‘Dangerous by design’ because it is strong enough to pull a man along against his will. Two horses, and a man stands no chance of holding a cart stationary against the horses.
Eight horses was the preferred ‘Mail coach’ team, so each horse was pulling 1/8 of the weight of the vehicle.
Nowadays, we talk about dozens of horse power. Vehicle weights are up to and beyond 30 tonnes. There is nothing out there that is ‘Not dangerous’ except the ¼ HP ( one man power ) vehicle that can be held back by a man holding onto the back of the saddle.

The problem is perception! Therefore thanks to perception, HGVs and Cyclists are dangerous. Everything has a risk, we all know that cycling is safer than visiting the bathroom or walking, but try persuading non cyclists. In 2010, HGVs were involved in half the number of injury accidents compared to cycles. The numbers of HGVs has steadily dropped and is currently 7% lower than a decade ago. This is mostly due to increases in efficiency.

Regularly, I see cyclists put themselves into insane positions with HGVs just like this - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=leW8Mx1GciE When you watch this you have to percieve that HGVs are dangerous!

I know that most of us would not ride like this, and can assure you that most HGV drivers would drive like that - but!

What I saw on that vid was a bunch of inexperienced cyclists ignoring the direction indication of another roaduser.
If that guy in the DARK polo shirt with the BLACK bag had got squashed, it would have been 'death by misadventure' because he wasn't fully observing the traffic conditions. The cammer's vid would have proved he was 'cycling without due care' and responsible for his own demise.
As what happened was, the trucker was observant and patient enough to allow the idiot cyclists to go on their way. Gawd only knows what the trucker was thinking about the idiots.

PS The milling machine in my shed doesn't go anywhere, but it is 'Dangerous' when NOT TREATED WITH RESPECT, like the cyclists on that vid were NOT treating the left indicator of that truck with respect.

[hexhome]

What I saw on that vid was a bunch of inexperienced cyclists ignoring the direction indication of another roaduser.
If that guy in the DARK polo shirt with the BLACK bag had got squashed, it would have been 'death by misadventure' because he wasn't fully observing the traffic conditions. The cammer's vid would have proved he was 'cycling without due care' and responsible for his own demise.
As what happened was, the trucker was observant and patient enough to allow the idiot cyclists to go on their way. Gawd only knows what the trucker was thinking about the idiots.

Maybe, but very few interactions like this are videoed. The point is that this is happening everyday at many junctions in London and other cities. This is why our cause is being diluted. This is how truck drivers see it http://www.trucknetuk.com/phpBB/viewtop ... =2&t=94082

[Claireysmurf]

This is how truck drivers see it http://www.trucknetuk.com/phpBB/viewtop ... =2&t=94082

That was a lot tamer than I was expecting! They must have been sidetracked by low level racism

[hexhome]

This is how truck drivers see it http://www.trucknetuk.com/phpBB/viewtop ... =2&t=94082

That was a lot tamer than I was expecting! They must have been sidetracked by low level racism

Now you're not drawn into stereotyping truck drivers are you Claire?

[Claireysmurf]

Now you're not drawn into stereotyping truck drivers are you Claire?

I haven't made a single Yorkie joke! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DCeQNPJtMWY

or even https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w9lmCpIzhFo

Given how we lot can go on about other road users, the truckers moans about cyclists were pretty restrained I thought.

[kwackers]

Given how we lot can go on about other road users, the truckers moans about cyclists were pretty restrained I thought.

Perspective.

When was the last time you caused a truck to swerve into the middle of the road by overtaking too fast and too close?
When did you last use your size to intimidate other road users?
(etc etc).

[danfoto]

Whilst not cycle specific, this video gives a good impression of potential problems when sharing road space with HGVs.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=p ... geKuuHiL4#

Alas, I gave up on it before halfway. I couldn't understand much of what was being said ...

[hexhome]

Perspective.

When was the last time you caused a truck to swerve into the middle of the road by overtaking too fast and too close?
When did you last use your size to intimidate other road users?
(etc etc).

The same day you rode through endless red lights and forced those pedestrians to leap out of your way

[kwackers]

Perspective.

When was the last time you caused a truck to swerve into the middle of the road by overtaking too fast and too close?
When did you last use your size to intimidate other road users?
(etc etc).

The same day you rode through endless red lights and forced those pedestrians to leap out of your way

I don't but they do.

Even you admitted the video I posted of a lorry driver wasn't great.

Might be something in the water but whereas incidences with trucks were once pretty rare it seems now a decent number of lorry drivers don't seem to realise there's even more of their truck to the rear of the cab.
They're overtaking too fast and too close and then pulling back in long before they've cleared.
Don't know about you but it makes me distinctly unhappy to spend each overtake trying to gauge just how much space I might or might not have by the time the rear wheels arrive.

OTOH as a pedestrian who does around 50 miles a week on foot I can't say I've ever had to jump out of the way of a cyclist who's jumped a red light - not that I consider the two to be comparable.