Priorities when overtaking a bus

[thirdcrank]

Take the cyclist out of the scenario and remember that the HC advises allowing buses to pull ot from stops. (I've dug it out before so I'm not bothering now) Plenty of drivers ignore that advice and some are desperate to get by to be able to drive faster than they can following a bus. Then remember that many buses, around here at least, have a big sticker on the rear offside corner saying "Give way to the bus" with a reference to the HC. IME some bus drivers take that advice to overtaking drivers as giving them a right to pull away from stops come what may. A modern bus can be steered almost sideways.

Gang warily.

[drossall]

It depends . If a car behind has already pulled out to overtake both you and the bus then it has priority. If you are the first out you have priority.
Following drivers are under an obligation to hold back only when you are making a manoeuvre to overtake. They don't have to hold back because they think you might want to overtake, though may do if they're courteous.

I'm not sure that's entirely true, because the driver behind is doing the real overtaking, and therefore must do so only when it's safe. However, the situation is rather like a motorway, when you move across a lane to overtake a car, and find the car behind you doing the same. All things being equal, you'd expect to go first, but there comes a point at which the car behind is "committed", and you need to give way.

A driver who doesn't expect you to overtake a stationary vehicle in front of you is not paying attention - because he/she is in the same lane as you, the vehicle is in front of her/him too, and he/she should have seen you as well as it.

[thirdcrank]

Augustus Windsock:

This thread needs you

Or rather, it doesn't.

======================================
edit to add

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yfVp40o159E

(I'm sure I've seen a version of this or something similar where an aerial shot recommends a route shaped rather like the shape of a brace and bit.)

[JohnW]

Take the cyclist out of the scenario.................

Which is the heart's desire of the motoring fraternity.............

Seriously though - I've learned not to overtake a 'bus at all; the number of dangerous situations which have developed for me when I've done so number legion. I know it's a pain, and I know all this talk about my "rights", but there are times when discretion is the better part of valour.

I don't abstain from overtaking a 'bus at all times and in all situations, there are times when I consider it safe, but generally, I just wait for him to load. There is also the posibility that, no matter how clear the road is of other traffic, the 'bus will pull out just as you're half way along it.

[Vorpal]

I think the best argument against overtaking a bus is the risk of playing leap frog with it. Most of the trouble I've had with busses have been when they've overtaken me. When I've overtaken busses, any difficulties have mainly come from other vehicles.

As others have said or implied...
-if there is another lane going in the same direction (or the bus stop is over enough to leave most of the lane clear for overtaking), anyone pulling out from behind the bus has to give way to the folks already travelling in that lane
-if there isn't another lane, the first vehicle (including a cyclist) should have priority, but many drivers may not realise that they should give priority to a cyclist in these circumstances; because they're faster they can just nip around....

As hexhome said, it is a negotiation. I would also suggest that not following the bus too closely will help. If I am the first vehicle behind a bus, I try to leave a few car lengths between us. That gives me better visibility around the bus, and more room to move out when the bus (inevitably) stops.

Turning around and looking at the driver behind will tell him/her that I am about to do something. I don't usually signal to over take a bus; I don't want the driver to think I am turning, but when I feel it will help, I point at the position in the road I wish to take.

[thirdcrank]

I'm not going to reduce sales of Roadcraft by reproducing or paraphrasing big chunks on here, but John Franklin has some important observations about the "running lane."

(And in case anybody wonders, that's nor a farcility for joggers. )

[hexhome]

I'm not going to reduce sales of Roadcraft by reproducing or paraphrasing big chunks on here, but John Franklin has some important observations about the "running lane."

(And in case anybody wonders, that's nor a farcility for joggers. )

No but you might reduce sales of Cyclecraft

[thirdcrank]

.... No but you might reduce sales of Cyclecraft

I'll put a brave face on this and say it's always gratifying when somebody spots on of the deliberate errors I cunningly include to keep readers on their toes.

Anyway, that's my story, and I'm sticking to it.

[hexhome]

Ah Police training, excellent

[JohnW]

I think the best argument against overtaking a bus is the risk of playing leap frog with it. Most of the trouble I've had with busses have been when they've overtaken me. When I've overtaken busses, any difficulties have mainly come from other vehicles.

As others have said or implied...
-if there is another lane going in the same direction (or the bus stop is over enough to leave most of the lane clear for overtaking), anyone pulling out from behind the bus has to give way to the folks already travelling in that lane
-if there isn't another lane, the first vehicle (including a cyclist) should have priority, but many drivers may not realise that they should give priority to a cyclist in these circumstances; because they're faster they can just nip around....

As hexhome said, it is a negotiation. I would also suggest that not following the bus too closely will help. If I am the first vehicle behind a bus, I try to leave a few car lengths between us. That gives me better visibility around the bus, and more room to move out when the bus (inevitably) stops.

Turning around and looking at the driver behind will tell him/her that I am about to do something. I don't usually signal to over take a bus; I don't want the driver to think I am turning, but when I feel it will help, I point at the position in the road I wish to take.

This is just my opinion of course, but I think that Vorpal has it summed up here, and my experience is in accord with him.

I often find that if I tuck in behind a 'bus when he's about to pull out, the driver will flash his hazard lights in acknowledgment. I think that's a nice touch.

[drossall]

Of course, to some degree he's entitled to expect, or at least to hope, that you will - rule 223 applies just as much to cyclists as to anyone else.

[thirdcrank]

Yes, but the HC is intended to be used and followed with the knowledge that all road users should be careful and keep a good lookout. Beyond those basic requirements, it explains the laws demands and sets out some advice about how to be extra careful in particular situations. The problems can arise when road users lose sight of their own responsibilities and base their conduct on their own interpretation of the responsibilities of others. "You should of..."

[nez]

Gang warily is good advice. I have actually witnessed a child being knocked over by a car overtaking a stationary bus. God knows what possessed the child to run into the road, but I treat stopped buses with a great deal of caution, whether on a bike or in a car.

[NATURAL ANKLING]

Of course, to some degree he's entitled to expect, or at least to hope, that you will - rule 223 applies just as much to cyclists as to anyone else.

Hi,
The M.S.M. Still applies for the bus driver, I always look in the drivers mirror as his gaze moves from the internals of bus to the road. To confirm he's seen me if I am in overtaking mode.
I try to act like a car when moving in traffic at near to / matching cars speed.
I expect all road users to give appropiate respect to others, even though a bike is at the lowest end of respect.
Quite often I glance signal manover, and a car decides to over take any way ( 99 % no indication ) and on the other side of road, car top under my arm
On my commuting run home a blind corner on sharp brow of hill I would hear cars behind me, on seeing me they automaticly overtake no indication, road 2.5 Mtr max wide, straight into path of on comming rat race commuters, forcing them into hedge, then the offending driver would still attempt the manover even though they have no priority
I always emphasise to my better half that you should always take the correct position and stance on the road when driving, so that any mistake is more likely to come from the other driver, who most comonly is going to be on the wrong side of road.
Especially turning right on mini roundabouts, on a bicycle or in my 20 ft camper I go round the roundabout so that other opposing right turn drivers would and could do the same in tandem but if impatient are on the wrong side and going anticlockwise
Stopping, tucking in behind a vehicle is good and means you can keep your ground and pull away safely, commit to your overtaking text book and let the other drivers do a bad manover, shrinking back is not always good I.M.O. But remain safe always.
Remember that the question always asked is what part of aledged offending vehicle hit the assumed innocent part
If its the front then the driver will mostly be at fault ( how can they not see you ) Take a long low angle approach to overtaking holding your ground, a vehicle is less likely to drive over you than glance by you
Not too fast well meaning signals ( hand high ) with deliberate manovers, and text book position will I.M.O. force others to take the right line or look stupid.
I know that drivers expext you to simply get out of the way, or off the road, but...............................................
Training at pre driving test here would be most effective on car drivers attitude.

[gordy]

The way that I understand the Highway Code is that there is no such thing as "priority" for drivers, cyclists or horse-riders.

The intro to section 103 and beyond is clear, in my eyes:

"The rules in The Highway Code do not give you the right of way in any circumstance, but they advise you when you should give way to others. Always give way if it can help to avoid an incident."

There are far to many people on the roads who have this the wrong way round and are always claiming their right of way. IMHO, of course.