Fixed Gear/Single Speed .

[WrightsW5]

I don't believe any chain is stronger than any other type, assuming they are all made of the same metal and same sideplate thickness.

[NATURAL ANKLING]

Hi,
A derrallier chain can be twisted or bent in an arc sideways
Standard chains dont do this till they are very worn.
I do not know the intimate design of such chain, but imagine extra plate clearance in the chain to allow more flexibility with out compromising anything else

[Si]

But reading something by Brant I see he thinks its the other way round, suggesting that because 3/32 have to stand up to all the shifting up and down the sprockets, unlike a track 1/18th, they are actually stronger (or longer lasting which isn't always the same thing). Chains normally fail at the pivots and it's here where he said the 3/32 is better. Opinions?

Hi,
Thats funny I always thought that chains failed where they are joined / linked etc,

Yep, that's what I meant by pivot - ie the pin coming out of the side plate - as opposed to the side plate breaking which doesn't happen that often IME..

[Brucey]

But reading something by Brant I see he thinks its the other way round, suggesting that because 3/32 have to stand up to all the shifting up and down the sprockets, unlike a track 1/18th, they are actually stronger (or longer lasting which isn't always the same thing). Chains normally fail at the pivots and it's here where he said the 3/32 is better. Opinions?

JB thinks a lot of faintly odd things....

I have seen many failed derailleur chains; I'm not sure I've ever seen a failed 1/8" chain. They don't normally see the same loads, of course...

Years ago I tried running a 3/32" bushingless chain on a 3/32" fixed gear. I was greeted with such a cacophony of dreadful sounds as the chain tried to escape its monotheistic ratio I said 'never again'. Even bushed 3/32" chain ran more noisily than any 1/8" one.

Flush, swaged rivets allow derailleur chains to have high rivet push out forces (the first time....) but they also impose a large residual stress on the sideplate. Hence the occasional sideplate failures. You can of course have swaged rivets that protrude on a 1/8" chain if you want to; thus no residual stress, plus increased pushout force...bushingless for flexibility... so the best of both worlds...? Maybe.

cheers

[mig]

But reading something by Brant I see he thinks its the other way round, suggesting that because 3/32 have to stand up to all the shifting up and down the sprockets, unlike a track 1/18th, they are actually stronger (or longer lasting which isn't always the same thing). Chains normally fail at the pivots and it's here where he said the 3/32 is better. Opinions?

JB thinks a lot of faintly odd things....

I have seen many failed derailleur chains; I'm not sure I've ever seen a failed 1/8" chain. They don't normally see the same loads, of course...

Years ago I tried running a 3/32" bushingless chain on a 3/32" fixed gear. I was greeted with such a cacophony of dreadful sounds as the chain tried to escape its monotheistic ratio I said 'never again'. Even bushed 3/32" chain ran more noisily than any 1/8" one.

Flush, swaged rivets allow derailleur chains to have high rivet push out forces (the first time....) but they also impose a large residual stress on the sideplate. Hence the occasional sideplate failures. You can of course have swaged rivets that protrude on a 1/8" chain if you want to; thus no residual stress, plus increased pushout force...bushingless for flexibility... so the best of both worlds...? Maybe.

cheers

why do you think this was if the chain and sprocket were matched?

[NATURAL ANKLING]

Years ago I tried running a 3/32" bushingless chain on a 3/32" fixed gear. I was greeted with such a cacophony of dreadful sounds as the chain tried to escape its monotheistic ratio I said 'never again'. Even bushed 3/32" chain ran more noisily than any 1/8" one.

why do you think this was if the chain and sprocket were matched?

Hi,
+1

[Brucey]

Years ago I tried running a 3/32" bushingless chain on a 3/32" fixed gear. I was greeted with such a cacophony of dreadful sounds as the chain tried to escape its monotheistic ratio I said 'never again'. Even bushed 3/32" chain ran more noisily than any 1/8" one.

why do you think this was if the chain and sprocket were matched?

Hi,
+1

TBH I'm not 100% sure. It may have been a combination of things. I think my chainring was eccentric, I don't think the the sprocket was very good quality, and the chain (which wasn't badly stretched) had already been used and was uneccessarily flexible side to side. I tried a similar setup on an IGH with the same chainset and a threaded driver in the hub. The chain would occasionally try and climb off. I nearly broke the IGH axle this way. I think the inner sideplates of the chain had a slight flare to them, but not enough to prevent the tooth top from snagging when the chain was flapping about.

Nonetheless, the same setups ran perfectly with 1/8" bushed chain.

I persisted (on both my track bike and my fixed gear road bike) using 3/32" bushed chain for some years; it was noisy and wore quickly. In the end I couldn't carry on like that because I found it increasingly diffcult to find this kind of chain. The whole thing just worked far better (even with 3/32" cogs) when I switched to 1/8" chain.

I am presently using the cheapest 1/8" bushingless KMC chain (KMC Z410) on an IGH bike and the transmission is the smoothest it has ever been, even when the chain is running very slack (so slack it can be unshipped with zero effort). Mysteriously the chain doesn't unship when I'm riding the bike; (I'm seeing how worn it is going to get before it does BTW). I think it will be slapping the chainstay before it unships often. This chain has 45 degree chamfers on the inner side plates, so it doesn't foul badly even when it is flapping about.

As indicated in a previous post, this chain has protruding swaged rivets, so has a 90kgf min pin pushout force, and shouldn't crack sideplates. I wouldn't use it on a track bike because it isn't ideal for routine length changes using a chain tool; just like most derailleur chain, pushing flared pins through the side plates causes damage and subsequent weakness.

For fixed gear use I will stick with a bushed chain I think; I prefer the chain to run with less slack and it sees higher loads. But the bushingless chain works quite well on an IGH and is disposably cheap.

cheers

[Si]

But reading something by Brant I see he thinks its the other way round, suggesting that because 3/32 have to stand up to all the shifting up and down the sprockets, unlike a track 1/18th, they are actually stronger (or longer lasting which isn't always the same thing). Chains normally fail at the pivots and it's here where he said the 3/32 is better. Opinions?

JB thinks a lot of faintly odd things....

He might do, but I was talking about Brant Richards, as in On-One (or Zack Tempest for readers of a certain age). Sorry for any confusion.

[mig]

strange about the 3/32nds set up!!

what sprockets do you usually use? i've twisted the teeth on those 'cyclo' ones in use before and have moved on to EAI which seem excellent. does anyone have experience with andel sprockets?

[Brucey]

strange about the 3/32nds set up!!

what sprockets do you usually use? i've twisted the teeth on those 'cyclo' ones in use before and have moved on to EAI which seem excellent. does anyone have experience with andel sprockets?

I bought as many suntour and dura-ace sprockets as I could find years ago, so I mostly use those. For rougher use I have a few random sprockets of lesser quality, mostly machined from solid rather than pressed. Of the pressed sprockets I've ever bought, I've rejected about 50% as being so badly made that they are likely to strip an aluminium hub.

cheers

[mig]

yes dura ace are good quality but these days only go up to, IIRC, 16T. great for track but not so good for road usage. my LBS found a 1/8th villiers of a certain vintage that lasted well plus i have a small stock but i would like to find a source of top quality 1/8th sprockets one day.....

[pioneer]

I get my sprockets fro On-One. Not the cheap pressed things, but next model up. They are hard wearing and last ages. (Andel I think)

[Brucey]

SJS do 'Token' ones in steel 13-18T. Not BTDT but they look nice.

They also do Miche ones 14-18T with a carrier.

Velosolo have a decent range as well IIRC, including the Andel ones up to 22T

cheers

[Drake]

21t freewheel sprocket arrived y/day and the frame is going for P/C on Tues .
Oct time last year,i had a new BB cartridge fitted to this frame . The original idea was to rebuild this machine and just use it as a local hack .
That didn't happen and i stored the frame in my shed over winter . This frame is the bases of the single speed machine we're building . As we're having the frame P/C,we had the LBS remove the cartridge for us .
Out of interest i just wondered what you would have considered to be a fair charge for carrying out this task .

[pioneer]

You mean a fair charge for removing the B/B only, not the powder coat aswell? Anywhere from a fiver to fifteen I'd say. A fiver it's a an LBS you know and use frequently, more if perhaps a national chain (Evans, Halfords). Though it is in fact, a piece of cake to do yourself and the tool isn't expensive either. But what did they charge you?