Multifuel stoves

[PT1029]

Any offers of advice on what to buy?
For years I've used a MSR petrol stove which I rate highly, but its long in the tooth, and she who has been around for less time than the stove really does not like it. Rather than zero pressure flammable liquid, she feels safer carrying highly pressured flammable gas cylinders instead.
So either
1. Decent gas stove for cycle camping that can take a reasonable size pot (2 hungary cyclists) and reasonable cannister availability (Eg UK/Europe, eventually USA/NZ also?), possibly 1 of the following
2. Primus Multifuel EX, which can do LPG/petrol/diesel/kerosine. Sounds good but a tad noisy from what I have read.
3. Primus Omnilite Ti, which seems almost ditto, but does "gas" rather than LPG.

I'm not an expert on the various types/standards of gas cylinders/fitting, so any pointers in that direction would be useful.

Thanks.

[boblo]

Are you using this overseas? If just this country, gas is as convenient as anything.

Having said that, I have a Primus Omnifuel and an MSR Whisperlite International. Both superb. The MSR is a bit lighter but burns dirtier. The new Ti Omnifuel looks worth a look as it's about the same weight as the MSR but quite spendy...

Have a look at the new Primus Express Lander or Edelrid Hexon for the lightest multifuelers. If I were buying again, it would be one of those two.

[Will]

I'm not an expert on the various types/standards of gas cylinders/fitting, so any pointers in that direction would be useful.

You are likely to come across three types of gas canisters:

1. EN417 threaded canister - This has the same standard fitting as the connector on the stoves you are considering.
2. Campingaz CV type canister - This looks similar to the EN417, but does not have a thread. They normally have a plastic cover over the connector when you buy them.
3. Pierceable gas canister - This type of canister does not have a built in connector, and once pierced you cannot detach your stove until the gas is used up.

You can use type 2 and 3 canisters with an appropriate adapter:

You can use this type of adapter to convert a Campingaz CV canister to an EN417 threaded canister:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Edelrid-7330200 ... m_sbs_sg_2

You can use this type of adapter to convert a pierceable canister to an EN417 threaded canister: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Edelrid-Punctur ... m_sbs_sg_1

I tend to use a pierceable canister plus an adapter with my Primus Omnifuel. The canisters are smaller than the threaded canisters but the cost for the gas is cheaper (since you are not paying for a valve every time). If you take both adapters with you on tour then you are unlikely to experience any problems in buying a canister to fit.

You will also find different propane/butane mixtures. You only really need to be concerned with the mixture if you are camping in winter. Winter camping requires a mixture containing more propane.

Will

[andrew_s]

You will also find different propane/butane mixtures. You only really need to be concerned with the mixture if you are camping in winter. Winter camping requires a mixture containing more propane.

You need to consider the mixture any time the temperature isn't warm.
As a canister is used, the propane part of the mix is used preferentially, with the result that by the time the canister is about 60% used, there's only butane left.
Pure butane boils at approx. 0°C, and below this temperature, a stove won't light. If it's not much above 0°C, the butane boiling off to go to the burner cools the remaining liquid gas in the canister until the heat entering the canister from the surrounding environment won't maintain more than a gentle simmer, with the result that time to boil a pan of water goes up from about 3 minutes with a fresh canister to 10 minutes or more, or forever if there's a breeze and you don't have a good wind screen. "Not much above 0°C" means anything below about 15°C.

There are 2 ways round this:
a) Use Jetboil canisters, which are an Isobutane/Propane mix (Isobutane, aka methyl propane, has it's 4 carbon atoms in a Y shape rather than a line, and boils at about -15°C)

b) Use a remote canister stove that has a preheat loop, and use the canister upside down to feed liquid gas to the burner (only invert after the stove has got going).
Suitable stoves are available from Edelrid, MSR, Primus, Karrimor

I use the Edelrid, along with one of the adapters in the previous post if necessary.
The MSR and Karrimor weren't available at the time I got it, and the upright valve on the Primus makes inverting the gas canister more awkward.

[BeeKeeper]

From my experience in France the pierceable Campingaz cannisters are becoming hard to find - it is just old stock being used up I suspect. The Edelrid adaptor mentioned above works fine although it is very heavy for its size. With a stove designed for EN417 cannisters and this adaptor you should be fine or more or less anywhere but off the beaten track liquid fuel is probably the best option.

On Crazyguy I have seen once or twice descriptions of modified bike frames which carry fuel inside the frame with a small brass tap brazed onto the tube at the bottom. Probably excellent in say South America but if carrying meths/alcohol probably best to avoid countries like Iran - you could end up in the slammer as a suspected booze smuggler!

[hamster]

For the USA, Coleman liquid fuel (white gasoline) is ubiquitous and I would go for any stove that burns it. I have also used it in NZ with no availability problems.
My personal choice is a Coleman Peak 1, but there are plenty of others like MSR which every bit as good (or better) and lighter. Most will run on unleaded petrol, although this tends to be more sooty.

[andrew_s]

In the end of the day, it's best to have a variety of stoves so you can select the one most appropriate to the area you are going.
In the UK & Europe, that's most likely either meths or gas, in the US it would be something that runs on Coleman fuel ("white gas") and in Africa you'd want a multifuel stove where it was easy to clean out the jet & generator tube when they get blocked.

Another consideration is the volume in which fuel is available. In the US, a lot of supermarket white gas is in fairly large containers, and there are minimum sales posted on most car petrol pumps.

With a stove designed for EN417 cannisters

Note that "EN417" doesn't mean "threaded". It's a safety standard, and you'll see that the unthreaded blue Camping Gas CV canisters are marked EN417 as well.

[BeeKeeper]

Thanks - I was just coping what Will had written - didn't bother to check it! I had previously just called them "threaded" or "Coleman type".

[Will]

Thanks - I was just coping what Will had written - didn't bother to check it! I had previously just called them "threaded" or "Coleman type".

EN417 is used as a colloquialism for the threaded canister type that conforms to that European safety standard. Many shops/websites will refer to this type of gas canister as "EN417 threaded" (http://www.cnfoutdoors.co.uk/index.php? ... t_id=12955).

There is only one type of threaded valve that conforms to the standard, and they are all manufactured by the same company (Lindal). If you see a canister with a thread and it has EN417 on it, then you know that it is the correct connection.

Will

[pjclinch]

In the end of the day, it's best to have a variety of stoves so you can select the one most appropriate to the area you are going.

Wot 'e sez...

We have a selection, and the most common Weapon Of Choice is a Primus Gravity EF gas stove. Compared to the liquid fuel pressure stove it's a lot easier to get set up, to control, maintain (because you never really need to do anything) and generally use (and have a conversation next to: we have a Primus MFS which sounds like a turbo-jet when it's going!). If we're counting grammes we've a wee titanium can-mounting Outdoor Designs stove, but it's far more awkward to cook on than the (not that much heavier) Primus which uses a hose to a remote canister and has fold-out wide feet to make it much more stable. And lower, so it's easier to use a windshield (which came with it).

Haven't used liquid fuels since a paddling tour around Shetland years back, when I couldn't be sure about gas re-supply in remote corners.

We also have a Trangia and optionally a gas converter for it, but bulk generally sees that relegated to the sea kayaks. It's more stable and better shielded than anything else going, but you pay in weight and bulk. Weight is a non-issue and bulk not much of one in the boat though, so it is Weapon Of Choice there.

Liquid fuel pressure stoves are, I think, a bit of a cult thing. They have genuine advantages if fuel resupply will mean occasional petrol stations or knocking on a farmhouse door but if you can get gas cans easily enough then getting rid of contact with highly volatile and flammable (and frankly rather smelly) fuel is a Good Thing IMHO and IME. Some pressure stoves "do gas", but they don't do it as well as a pure gas stove because they have a much simpler flame spreader, so you'll burn more fuel more noisily with less control. Still makes them nicer than faffing about with paraffin, but if you're thinking "the only downside to burning liquids as well as gas is the cost" then sadly it ain't so. They're heavier than gas stoves too.

Pete.