VK Saddle Adapter Alteration

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nickpaton
Posts: 180
Joined: 4 Mar 2013, 9:07pm
Location: Newcastle upon Tyne

VK Saddle Adapter Alteration

Post by nickpaton »

The Brooks B17 saddle on my Spa Cycles iTourer wouldn't move far enough back and I found myself, for instance, sitting almost on the the back edge. Checking KOPS, found it to be still too far forward. I didn't want to replace the saddle though.

Despite a lot of negative reviews, I decided to buy a VK Saddle Adjuster, which pushes the saddle back 4cm from its original position.

On trying to secure the Saddle to the VK Adapter using the existing threaded (Upper) part of the Saddle Clamp, I found the supplied M8 50mm long bolt shoulder (unthreaded part of the bolt shaft) was far too long, and prevented the assembly being getting even close to being tightened as in the picture below:

Image

Also I wonder if the supplied bolt as a whole might be too long, and could foul the underside of the saddle if it could be fully tightened.

Solution was to fit a shorter bolt (with a shorter shoulder), and the following picture shows the supplied bolt and the new shorter one:

Image

The new shorter M8 40mm long bolt was found to be the correct length, and the following picture shows it correctly in place with just a bit of shoulder showing and sufficient remaining thread length:

Image

The saddle is now firmly secured to the VK Adapter.

The next (and more serious) problem relates to the saddle centre being now roughly 4cm behind the original saddle clamp centre. No matter how tight the bolt is that passes through the Seat Post (a System EX I believe), the VK Adapter and Saddle tended to slip round on the Seat Post, causing the front nose of the saddle to raise up during a ride, and ending up making it very uncomfortable to sit on.

Examination of the various parts now making up the Seat Post clamping mechanism showed that there were smooth paint-to-paint mating surfaces which weren't gripping each other. Also the existing Curved Metal Clamp that is supposed to grip the metal under the Seat Post, was simply not up to the job.

The solution was first to remove all the paint between the metal-to-metal mating surfaces (Old Lower Saddle Clamp and top surfaces of the Seat Post), and to roughen them up to increase the friction between the various mating surfaces.
Secondly, the metal (aluminium) surface under the Seat Post which mates with the steel circular clamp, was filed to shape it to exactly the same profile as the Curved Clamp. Also any old indentations in the metal contact area of the Seat Post, which could cause the Curved Clamp to jump back into them, were smoothed off.
Despite this work, the VK Adapter and Saddle Assembly still tended to slip upwards - OK it was greatly reduced and only happened gradually during a long ride - but this continued to result in increased saddle discomfort and was still not satisfactory, as the saddle angle was going to have to be regularly reset.

I had to either further increase the friction / gripping action of the Seat Post Clamp Assembly, or to find a way of stopping the VK Adapter / Saddle Assembly from slipping on the Seat Post.

The solution I came up with is radical, and was only done after I was 110% sure the saddle angle was in the right position, as it can't be changed later.

Referring to the following picture:
Image

I used Blue Pack Araldite Epoxy Resin to glue all the Seat Post mating surfaces, ie the Curved Metal Clamp to the Seat Post underside surface, and the Old Lower Saddle Clamp onto the top of the Seat Post - note the picture doesn't really show the glue on the surfaces.
Being one of the hardest epoxy adhesives I know of, it's never going to move again, but the big downside is that long term is it's never going to come apart either, which is why it's so important to ensure the saddle angle is correct!

Overall I feel the VK Saddle Adapter is a good idea and does go some way to solving Saddle fore and aft positioning, but it has a number of design flaws which could be solved with a bit more work, including supplying a bolt with no shoulder for instance!
Also my "bodge" with having to glue the parts is not good, and some better method of attaching the VK Adapter to the Seat Post is needed.

Also I'm aware that for some people the VK Adapter does work straight out of the box, but for many others it just doesn't and I hope this will go some way to helping them with some solutions.
yostumpy
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Re: VK Saddle Adapter Alteration

Post by yostumpy »

I don't think the VK adapter has the design flaw, its that awful seatpost design thats the problem, a bit like trying to balance a spirit level on a snails back thats covered in vaseline! I gave up on my snails back years ago, same prob, if you think about the amount of leverage on that curved surface it would never hold. Get yourself a Spa Nidd saddle, approx 12mm further set back, or a VO xtra layback seat post (only available in 27.2 IIRC., or a conventional one with a 'cupped hand' with serations to aid grip. the only prob with the latter is if you buy cheap ones, the serations are quite spaced out so a big difference in angle on one notch. Hence the VO one, its a twin bolt, infinately adjustable design, with oodles of layback.
nickpaton
Posts: 180
Joined: 4 Mar 2013, 9:07pm
Location: Newcastle upon Tyne

Re: VK Saddle Adapter Alteration

Post by nickpaton »

Agreed, Yostumpy, but one of the points of the exercise was to see if it was possible to make the Adapter fit onto this type of Seat Post.

Also I've now ridden a lot miles and well and truely broken in the Brooks and don't want to start all over again with a long ride coming up in a few weeks time.

What slightly surprises me is the length of the bolt supplied by VK, as I can't see that saddle rails heights are going to be that different between makes. But again I'd like to be proved wrong!
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horizon
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Re: VK Saddle Adapter Alteration

Post by horizon »

nickpaton: I haven't yet read all your post yet but just to say I have never had any problems with my VK - just heavenly joy. However I do remember fussing over bolt lengths (changed saddle last week) so you may be right. My saddle bolts are now mixed up so I don't know which was the original.
When the pestilence strikes from the East, go far and breathe the cold air deeply. Ignore the sage, stay not indoors. Ho Ri Zon 12th Century Chinese philosopher
nickpaton
Posts: 180
Joined: 4 Mar 2013, 9:07pm
Location: Newcastle upon Tyne

Re: VK Saddle Adapter Alteration

Post by nickpaton »

horizon wrote:nickpaton: I haven't yet read all your post yet but just to say I have never had any problems with my VK - just heavenly joy. However I do remember fussing over bolt lengths (changed saddle last week) so you may be right. My saddle bolts are now mixed up so I don't know which was the original.


This seems to be the issue with the VK Adapter, that it works fine with some Seat Post / Saddle combos, and not others.

Which leads me to ask - what Seat Post and Saddle do you have? It could be useful to make a list of out-of-the-box compatible combination for future reference.

I'm fairly certain that the bolt on my System EX Seat Stem was the same length as the supplied VK one (50mm long) with the same shoulder lengths too.
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531colin
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Re: VK Saddle Adapter Alteration

Post by 531colin »

I would use high tensile steel bolts with the saddle as far back as that. ......there is a bending stress on the bolt, and you are a long way behind that front bolt in particular.
Bike fitting D.I.Y. .....http://wheel-easy.org.uk/wp-content/upl ... -2017a.pdf
Tracks in the Dales etc...http://www.flickr.com/photos/52358536@N06/collections/
Remember, anything you do (or don't do) to your bike can have safety implications
nickpaton
Posts: 180
Joined: 4 Mar 2013, 9:07pm
Location: Newcastle upon Tyne

Re: VK Saddle Adapter Alteration

Post by nickpaton »

531colin wrote:I would use high tensile steel bolts with the saddle as far back as that. ......there is a bending stress on the bolt, and you are a long way behind that front bolt in particular.


Good point Colin - I'll get one ordered in to make 100% sure it's high tensile. The front (existing) one has an extra shoulder at the head of the bolt to fit in the little clamp under the seat post, and with it being next to impossible to source a similar one I'll have to trust it as is.

However it's been an interesting engineering exercise, but as I like the Brooks saddle I'd prefer to keep it and maybe take yostumpy's advise and go for a VO Xtra Layback seat post instead as an overall better (and safer) solution - pity I've already forked out for the adapter though!

Colin, do you know if the iTourer seat tube diameter is 27.2mm?
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531colin
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Joined: 4 Dec 2009, 6:56pm
Location: North Yorkshire

Re: VK Saddle Adapter Alteration

Post by 531colin »

Seatpost diameter is 27.2..... :wink:
Bike fitting D.I.Y. .....http://wheel-easy.org.uk/wp-content/upl ... -2017a.pdf
Tracks in the Dales etc...http://www.flickr.com/photos/52358536@N06/collections/
Remember, anything you do (or don't do) to your bike can have safety implications
yostumpy
Posts: 1043
Joined: 29 Oct 2010, 6:56pm

Re: VK Saddle Adapter Alteration

Post by yostumpy »

Nick, you can have my Vo seatpost if you like, its a bit scuffed below 1/2 way ish, I've now got a Nitto sp72 Jaguar. I can get you a photo of the VO if you like, I think they are about £37 + p+p on http://freshtripe.co.uk/Freshtripe/Seat ... post-3.jpg. But shall we say £22 posted, thats fair I think.

also just a thought, if/when you swop the bolt for a HT one, when you do it up, a spot of grease on the thread, and when you think its tight enough, get an old seat post or pipe, slide it over the allen key, and turn some more, you can get fantastic leverage on the allen key this way, just remember to hold the key firmly in the bolt head with your other hand. :wink:
nickpaton
Posts: 180
Joined: 4 Mar 2013, 9:07pm
Location: Newcastle upon Tyne

Re: VK Saddle Adapter Alteration

Post by nickpaton »

Yostumpy - many thanks for your post - I apologise for the delay in getting back to you and PM has been sent.
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