Rims for 1st wheel build, Chrinas or DT Swiss RR 465s?

[Northern_Monkey]

I’ve decided to have a go at building a new set of wheels for my Specialized Secteur road bike, which I use for sportives and club runs. I’m 5’8” / 78 kg and have another bike for light touring/commuting with wider rims/tyres. But I wasn't sure which rims to get, so a bit of advice would be good?

I’ve got the stand/tools for the build sorted, I’m just not sure which rims to use. I’m currently thinking of either Rigida Chrina or DT Swiss RR 465 as both seem like they would be pretty good choices. Really looking for an eyeleted rim with a wear indicator to use with 25 mm or smaller tyres.

1. Which rim would build easier for a novice?
2. Generally how nicely finished are the Chrinas, in terms of roundness/joins etc.?
3. Would the Chrinas be a lot stiffer/stronger than the DTs?

Wheel spec:
1. 32 spoke three cross front/rear
2. Front Sapim Race, Rear NDS Sapim Race/ DS Sapim Strong
3. Shimano 105 32 hole hubs

[ericet74]

Why 465s? I have the 415s with Chris King hubs and they are fabulous. For you height and weight thats all you need. Durability? I ride these wheels everywhere and have no issues.

[Northern_Monkey]

I hadn't really considered the RR 415s, last time I looked they were a bit more expensive and not that much different from the 465s. With being a very light rim and having single eyelets, do you reckon it would make them slightly harder to build up or a bit more flexy?

Your wheelset does sound like a pretty nice setup. How are the Chris King hubs, I always wondered if there was a marked difference in performance/durability in comparison to decent quality Shimano cup and cone hubs like XT or 105?

[ferrit worrier]

Personally I wouldn't touch a Chrina see topic

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=59051&hilit=+chrina+rigida#p498617

Malc

[Jay Gee]

Personally I wouldn't touch a Chrina

And nor would I. I had exactly the same problem as ferrit worrier. Conti gatorskins slipped off my old wheels no problem, I struggled to get even the first bead over the Chrina rim on the new wheels.

[RRSODL]

I’ve decided to have a go at building a new set of wheels for my Specialized Secteur road bike, which I use for sportives and club runs. I’m 5’8” / 78 kg and have another bike for light touring/commuting with wider rims/tyres. But I wasn't sure which rims to get, so a bit of advice would be good?

I’ve got the stand/tools for the build sorted, I’m just not sure which rims to use. I’m currently thinking of either Rigida Chrina or DT Swiss RR 465 as both seem like they would be pretty good choices. Really looking for an eyeleted rim with a wear indicator to use with 25 mm or smaller tyres.

1. Which rim would build easier for a novice?
2. Generally how nicely finished are the Chrinas, in terms of roundness/joins etc.?
3. Would the Chrinas be a lot stiffer/stronger than the DTs?

Wheel spec:
1. 32 spoke three cross front/rear
2. Front Sapim Race, Rear NDS Sapim Race/ DS Sapim Strong
3. Shimano 105 32 hole hubs

You don't need DT Sapim Strong spokes on the DS. Some people think that they gain an advantage by going with stronger spokes on the DS, the fact is that nobody has been able to prove the benefits. Stick with Race spokes both sides. At your weight you don't have to worry about that.

You could go 28 spokes on the front with no sweat. Even as low as 24 if you like. I run 24 radial on the front and I'm a lot heavier than you are.

The Chrinas are rather heavy for the purpose you have in mind. Even if you used a heavier rim and the spokes tension was low or uneven you still end up with a weak wheel. Make sure you have good tension and as even as possible and you will not have to worry about stiffness with the DT Swiss or similar rims.

Good luck

[531colin]

A big strong (stiff, wide/deep) rim is easier to build than a light (flexible, narrow/shallow) rim, and builds a stronger, more stable wheel.
A symmetrical wheel is easier to build (and more stable laterally) than a dished wheel.
I don't know if anybody has been able to "prove" any of that to RRSODLs satisfaction, but it is so.

I wouldn't use Sapim Strongs with a rim for 25mm tyres, its probably overkill.
However, the R. to L. tension difference in a 130mm OLN, 8/9/10etc speed wheel is in the ratio 3:2 or worse (in a proper tight wheel, about 120kgf right side to get 80 kgf left side....or worse). Brandt reckons the bottom 4 or so spokes have their tension reduced by the riders weight deforming the rim, but he was writing before box-section rims were ubiquitous. So when you go over a big bump, the bottom spokes have their tension reduced by an amount I can't quantify. The reason for using plain gauge spokes on the right is to even up the amount of stored stretch in the left and right spokes, so that the rim isn't pulled over to the right when you go over a bump.
Does it work? I don't know. But I do know its no trouble to do, and there are a lot of big people riding around on Chrinas I used to build like that.
Have a look at this old thread...http://forum.ctc.org.uk/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=49702&hilit=spokes&start=30

[Northern_Monkey]

Thanks for all your replies, definitely a few things to consider!

I think I will be going with the 465s and Race spokes, from the feedback about the Chrinas and suggestions that the single butted spokes were a bit OTT for what I’m going to use the wheels for.

RRSODL, I went with the 32 hubs as Ribble had pairs of the 5700 105s for about £43 and they were only doing them in 32 or 36. I will bear that in mind next time I’m looking at building a set of road wheels.

Colin, cheers for the explanation. I will have to give the thread you linked to a read to get a better understanding of why wheels work the way they do.

Definitely going to try and try and get the tension to be even, but we shall see how it goes...

[Mick F]

Personally I wouldn't touch a Chrina see topic

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=59051&hilit=+chrina+rigida#p498617

Malc

+1 from me.
When mine wear out, they're going in the recycling bin, and good riddance to them, never to be replaced.

[Brucey]

also worth consideration are Mavic open sport and mavic cxp22 rims.

Chrinas are inexpensive rims that don't have a deep well to them. The result is that some tyres are a very tight fit on them. Conti gatorskins are often tight, to the point that they won't seat properly on many rims (rims of the correct size, too) until they are inflated to 90psi or more, and they similarly unseat when deflated.

The DTs are nice enough rims.

All these rims will wear out on the braking surface if you get the miles in. 32s are a good choice for a road bike because you will have a wide range of rims to choose from when time comes to rebuild through wear or accident.

cheers

[RRSODL]

A big strong (stiff, wide/deep) rim is easier to build than a light (flexible, narrow/shallow) rim, and builds a stronger, more stable wheel.
A symmetrical wheel is easier to build (and more stable laterally) than a dished wheel.
I don't know if anybody has been able to "prove" any of that to RRSODLs satisfaction, but it is so.

I wouldn't use Sapim Strongs with a rim for 25mm tyres, its probably overkill.
However, the R. to L. tension difference in a 130mm OLN, 8/9/10etc speed wheel is in the ratio 3:2 or worse (in a proper tight wheel, about 120kgf right side to get 80 kgf left side....or worse). Brandt reckons the bottom 4 or so spokes have their tension reduced by the riders weight deforming the rim, but he was writing before box-section rims were ubiquitous. So when you go over a big bump, the bottom spokes have their tension reduced by an amount I can't quantify. The reason for using plain gauge spokes on the right is to even up the amount of stored stretch in the left and right spokes, so that the rim isn't pulled over to the right when you go over a bump.
Does it work? I don't know. But I do know its no trouble to do, and there are a lot of big people riding around on Chrinas I used to build like that.
Have a look at this old thread...http://forum.ctc.org.uk/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=49702&hilit=spokes&start=30

I think you misunderstood what I said, I wasn't saying that non dished wheels are as difficult to build as a dish wheel... that was not the point I was trying to make at all.

What I said is that some people would prefer to use straight gauge or single butted spokes on the DS of the rear wheel. To my knowledge nobody has yet proved that there is actually a benefit in doing so. I understand why they think it's a better choice of spokes but there is no proof that is really better.

To the OP, I'd concentrate on your building technique for a strong wheel. You have shown in your initial post that you would not go for a silly weak rim to begin with. Good technique will see you build a good wheel, strong and stiff. Don't be put off by people that might want to use big words and confuse you. Keep it simple and you will get there. The hubs you have chosen are more than strong enough for what you want, the spokes are also fine and the DT Swiss rim the same.
Basically, you are not a heavy rider to be concerned with some of the things that have been said here.
Read this if you like

[pete75]

also worth consideration are Mavic open sport and mavic cxp22 rims.

Chrinas are inexpensive rims that don't have a deep well to them. The result is that some tyres are a very tight fit on them. Conti gatorskins are often tight, to the point that they won't seat properly on many rims (rims of the correct size, too) until they are inflated to 90psi or more, and they similarly unseat when deflated.

I think you're right in that it may be the choice of tyre rather than the Chrina rim which causes the problems. I recently built a wheel with a Ryde(as it is now) Chrina and a 23 mile Vittoria Rubino Pro went on easily with just thumb pressure.

[meic]

I would not recommend the Open Sport for a first build as they are more flexible than others and are harder to get right when building.

I have a proven benefit due to using plain spokes compared to double butted on the drive side. They are cheaper, why pay more for less suitable spokes?

[Brucey]

I would not recommend the Open Sport for a first build as they are more flexible than others and are harder to get right when building....

having built with both I don't think there is much difference in stiffness vs a chrina TBH.

If you want to learn how to build wheels properly, arguably a flexible rim is a good idea rather than a very stiff rim which might flatter poor technique.

cheers