Cycling UK Forum

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pwa wrote:

JohnW wrote:

fatty wrote:*update as requested*................Ive wasted a lot of money on saddles in the past, but havent been tempted to try anything else since i bought the nidd.

fatty

Except perhaps another Nidd?

I've never had a Nidd, but I do think you should stick with what you know works. I've wasted hundreds of pounds over the years on saddles that proved to be unsuitable, and I think once you have found one that works for you, you should stop looking.

That's always been my approach............something along the lines of '.......if it's not broken, don't mend it.............'. After a cycling life of Brooks Pro and B17 saddles with never a problem with comfort and never a reason to change, one or two things have caused me to have another think.

One was a change in shape for the Pro. After 30 years and countless thousands of miles of service on two Pros, they finally
gave up the ghost and I had to replace one of them. After less than 1,000 miles it twisted itself into the most grotesque shape imaginable. Spa (from where I'd bought it) had a battle royal with the agent that distributes Brooks but finally got it replaced for me - but Brooks had changed the shape and I just couldn't get comfy with the new shape. I returned to B17s and bought a couple - the type with large copper rivets. When I got one of them home, all boxed and expensive looking, it had a sag which you wouldn't believe. Again the LBS shop also had a battle with the Brooks agent, who made silly suggestions without having seen it - like tensioning after a few hundred miles.........the saddle was really unrideable from the box, and being rock hard, how could it be tensioned?

Again ,following a battle with the Brooks agent, the saddle was finally replaced. The two new B17s were then comfortable from the start and never a problem for ten years. However, almost simultaneously on two bikes and with similar mileage the leather has begun to split at the nose rivets and one has been discarded. I began to think again.

I have a new-ish frame which has a steep seat-tube (74º) and I couldn't get Brooks saddles far enough back, so I bought a Spa 'Calder'. It is certainly harder than recent Brooks have been from new, but once in the correct position perfectly comfortable for moderate (70 miles-ish) rides - it's not done a long ride yet so maybe I've something to learn. I'll be able to assess it better next year - I've not done my usual mileage this year, partly because a motorist drove a car into me and broke my leg, resulting in a significant lay-off, and partly because it's not stopped raining this year.

However, along the lines of what pwa says, once established with a saddle that does the job, I'll not try anything different unless I have to.

gaz wrote:A Nidd arrived a few days ago, courtesy of Santa. I just have to get around to fitting it.

I hope you're very happy together gaz.

Like JohnW my B17 started to tear at the front rivets. It also had a problem with the tensioner; when I turned the nut the bolt spun and I had to use needle nose vice grips (pliers wouldn't grip tight enough) on the bolt to stop it turning. On tour in the middle of nowhere, Sand Point Idaho, the sag got very bad and I didn't have needle nose vice grips so I went to the LBS and bought a new B17. It was perfect from day 1 but it does seem that over the years there's been a slide in quality with Brooks products. I blame it on the bloke who founded Walmart, he found that if it's cheap enough people will buy any old rubbish. Of course you could argue it's the fault of the people who buy said old rubbish but it's more satisfying to pin it on an individual. Although nobody ever accused Brooks of being cheap so perhaps my insightful analysis is irrelevant here

Pete Jack wrote:While on tour I decided my B17 needed tightening so I went into a bike shop I was passing and asked to borrow a Brooks spanner. The man didn't have one throwing around in a drawer like most bike shops so he very kindly took one from a new B17 on display in his shop for me to use. It wouldn't fit! It was too small, I tried, he tried, neither of us could make it work. What I guess happened was that Brooks ran out of the old imperial unit stock and started using the nearest metric size that was just a teeny bit smaller. The old wrenches will probably work on the new stuff but not vice versa. I sent an email to Brooks on their website but heard nothing.

I find an ordinary spanner from the toolbox works just fine.

TonyR wrote:I find an ordinary spanner from the toolbox works just fine.

How does a spanner stop a bolt without a head from spinning?

gaz wrote:A Nidd arrived a few days ago, courtesy of Santa. I just have to get around to fitting it.

.... keep the packaging in case you need to send it back . . . . they seem like Brooks/Marmite ... love or hate 'em (My chums that bought them are in the hate group)

Rob

Pete Jack wrote:

TonyR wrote:I find an ordinary spanner from the toolbox works just fine.

How does a spanner stop a bolt without a head from spinning?

I think Tony probably means that an ordinary spanner of the correct size will work on the nut - I can confirm that if you can get it onto the nut. The benefit of the Brooks spanner (I think they refer to it as a 'key') is that it's easier to get it onto the nut if the nut is at an awkward angle - it's often difficult to get an ordinary spanner onto the nut.

Is Pete's problem that the bolt has rusted on to the threads on the bolt? - that's a mighty difficult problem to solve. When a bolt doesn't have a head, there's nothing to grab hold of.

.

Pete Jack wrote:

TonyR wrote:I find an ordinary spanner from the toolbox works just fine.

How does a spanner stop a bolt without a head from spinning?

The same way as the Brooks spanner you were looking for doesn't?

JohnW wrote:
Is Pete's problem that the bolt has rusted on to the threads on the bolt? - that's a mighty difficult problem to solve. When a bolt doesn't have a head, there's nothing to grab hold of.

Easy to solve - hold the bolt with pliers and if that doesn't work just weld the bolt head to the nose. Takes little time and doesn't get hot enough to harm the leather.

TonyR wrote:

Pete Jack wrote:

TonyR wrote:I find an ordinary spanner from the toolbox works just fine.

How does a spanner stop a bolt without a head from spinning?

The same way as the Brooks spanner you were looking for doesn't?

If you look under a Brooks saddle you will see that the adjusting bolt is captive, i.e. prevented from rotating, in the fixture at the nose of the saddle that the leather is attached to. For whatever reason this bolt escaped from captivity and turning the nut merely turned the bolt giving no adjustment whatever. If I'd had a hammer and a centre punch in my saddlebag I may have been able to secure it by whacking the end of the threaded rod thereby spreading it out and tightening it in the fixture. The only way I could make any adjustment with a Brooks spanner (a flare nut wrench works too) was by preventing the threaded rod (it's not really a bolt) from rotating hence the needle nose vice grips. If you can use an ordinary spanner to prevent this rod from rotating I'm intrigued as to how you'd do it.

Pete Jack wrote:

TonyR wrote:

Pete Jack wrote:[quote="TonyR"]
I find an ordinary spanner from the toolbox works just fine.

How does a spanner stop a bolt without a head from spinning?

The same way as the Brooks spanner you were looking for doesn't?

If you look under a Brooks saddle you will see that the adjusting bolt is captive, i.e. prevented from rotating, in the fixture at the nose of the saddle that the leather is attached to. For whatever reason this bolt escaped from captivity and turning the nut merely turned the bolt giving no adjustment whatever. If I'd had a hammer and a centre punch in my saddlebag I may have been able to secure it by whacking the end of the threaded rod thereby spreading it out and tightening it in the fixture. The only way I could make any adjustment with a Brooks spanner (a flare nut wrench works too) was by preventing the threaded rod (it's not really a bolt) from rotating hence the needle nose vice grips. If you can use an ordinary spanner to prevent this rod from rotating I'm intrigued as to how you'd do it.[/quote]

Can I just remind you of your story to which I replied.

[quote uid=4546 name="Pete Jack" ]While on tour I decided my B17 needed tightening so I went into a bike shop I was passing and asked to borrow a Brooks spanner. The man didn't have one throwing around in a drawer like most bike shops so he very kindly took one from a new B17 on display in his shop for me to use. It wouldn't fit! It was too small, I tried, he tried, neither of us could make it work. What I guess happened was that Brooks ran out of the old imperial unit stock and started using the nearest metric size that was just a teeny bit smaller. The old wrenches will probably work on the new stuff but not vice versa. I sent an email to Brooks on their website but heard nothing.[/quote]

There is nothing AFAIK in that story as told that required a Brooks spanner. You could just as easily have used a spanner and if, as you now tell, the bolt had been loose, a Brooks spanner would have been no more help than a standard spanner. So quite what point are you trying to make?

Tony, have you ever tried to get a regular open end spanner on that adjusting nut without taking the saddle off the bike? You may get a spanner on but then there's no room to turn it. I've got imperial and metric tools up the wahoo and i know whereof I speak. You may be able to come up with something that works by grinding all the meat off a regular spanner head I don't know, I do know a flare nut wrench works but not as well as the proper Brooks item, it's still hampered. The secret of the Brooks spanner is its short handle that allows you to get turn the nut without hitting your top tube. None of that addresses the threaded rod spinning.

Pete Jack wrote:Tony, have you ever tried to get a regular open end spanner on that adjusting nut without taking the saddle off the bike? You may get a spanner on but then there's no room to turn it. I've got imperial and metric tools up the wahoo and i know whereof I speak. You may be able to come up with something that works by grinding all the meat off a regular spanner head I don't know, I do know a flare nut wrench works but not as well as the proper Brooks item, it's still hampered. The secret of the Brooks spanner is its short handle that allows you to get turn the nut without hitting your top tube. None of that addresses the threaded rod spinning.

Yes. Perhaps my saddle is higher above the top tube than yours. Easy enough in any case to release the seat post to adjust it without the top tube interfering and then reposition it.