Leading rides from the back

[route 56]

Having been the back marker who has been dropped four times by the group over the last two years. I decided to lead a ride from the back as an experiment.
This has proved to be controversial with a leader who is much more experienced than myself.
Do any groups lead this way?
I would value others opinion if this a bad idea and is dangerous.

[[XAP]Bob]

It might help the group stay together better...

[Geoff.D]

Group members have to know what is meant by "leader" and "back marker", and have to collectively agree that the group should stay as a group (sometimes stringing out, but always coming back together) and NOT put pressure on the less able. If these conditions are met, then it's quite possible to "lead" from the back. I've done it in mountaineering situations, and I've been a member of a cycling group that's done it successfully.

But...a word of warning.

"Leading" is not simply being the one that finds the route and sets the pace. Leading is also being the one who takes overall responsibility. If you lead from the back, then you're still going to need a route finder who is also setting the pace. But, as leader, you'll need to keep communicating with that person and making sure that he/she doesn't bring the group ethos under pressure by being insensitive.

It sounds to me as if you've suffered a leader from the front who was also insensitive to the group ideal (by being dropped). It also sounds as if the contretemps with the more "experienced" leader comes from him/her being of the old school ( I'll lead - you'll follow- and the devil takes the hindmost). I suspect he/she isn't willing to give up the "power" of being leader.

Personally, I rather like your idea and would respect such leadership as being a much more egalitarian approach. But, it does need all to understand and commit to the group ethos.

[andrewjoseph]

i used to lead mixed ability mtb rides, unless i had help the safest way to help inexperienced riders was to hang on the back with them.

i'd tell the the faster riders to wait at certain points and especially at forest road junctions.

worked well and never left anyone behind.

[531colin]

I just circulated an E mail about a car-assisted ride. It includes the sentence "If you go off the front of the group and take a wrong turn, I won't be chasing you."
The E mail also contains an idea of the sort of ride...."gentle touring pace" ...."aiming for minor roads and scenery"

[RJS]

The other alternative is to lead from the front, and whoever is second waits at any junction etc untill everyone is through, this does help to keep the group moving, and the one at the rear does get to see some other people.
Cheers, Rob.

[Audax67]

In enterprise of a martial kind
When there was any fighting
He led his regiment from behind
He found it less exciting...

On our pack rides I ride as overall organizer and ultimate authority, but the position of leader and general trail boss belongs to Georges, a stronger, quite ingenious rider who is far better at handling people than I am. In addition we have three or four other blokes who serve as locomotives or back markers as needed, with maybe a sheepdog/whipper-in/messenger depending on the size of the pack. Georges and I are usually near the front where we can discuss progress etc. and rein in the leaders when they forget themselves. We usually run packs of 20 to 30 riders; for bigger rides we split off the hell-for-leather boys and send them off ahead to knock themselves out while we trog along behind. The hell-for-leather boys rarely turn out for long events, though. Funny that.

[iandriver]

I never felt the need for mirrors on a bike until I started leading rides. I generally lead from the front but do regularly drop back and chat to people on the straight bits. I found it a juggling act. More than about 8 riders and a back marker is generally necessary IMHO.

[Si]

This is for fairly new cyclists so may not be applicable to the original question but we use 'snaking'. For those that don't know, there are various versions but on the whole it works like this: there are two leaders (or 'Ride Managers' if you've been on the CTC course ). One stays at the front all of the time...it's his/her job merely to lead the ride along the route, to stop riders going off the front, to stop the group at junctions, to signal the rear leader to do their thing at junctions, and to keep the group together. The rear leader spends most of their time at the back making sure that no one is dropped, they also watch the group and give advice where necessary. When the front leader gives a signal to them, they 'race' up to the front to assist at junctions. At a junction the rear leader has control, he/she will tell the front leader when to go and will tell the group to follow. The front leader then sets off, the group follows and the rear leader joins the back again. The rear leader, at the junction, may also stop the rider currently about to go if traffic appears, and may also stand in the road to shield the group from traffic.

The important point is: the rear leader cannot keep the group together because they can't force the rear rider to ride faster ('cos it'll knacker them). Only the front rider can keep the group together by slowing the front of the group down....to do this he/she needs to look and see where the back of the group is regularly....if they aren't doing this they might as well not be there.

Now, I used to think that this was great for people with little road experience, but a bit over-nannying for club riding. However, recently I've seen some horrible club riding that may have been avoided by this kind of riding. And remember, the original club riders used to be much stricter, with everyone having to maintain position in the formation, having to listen out for bugle calls to tell them what to do, and having a group captain!

[Big T]

I often lead my Saturday group, not from the back but from the middle of the group. You have to have a loud voice so that the riders at the front can hear your directions. It seems to work OK, but they accept that I'm the leader and I choose the route. If you have a rival "leader" in the group, then it can cause problems.

[LittleGreyCat]

Just joined and reading through the fora with interest

One thing about communication - nowadays you can get cheap radio handsets with earphones,

Used responsibly these could ensure good communication between front and rear organisers and avoid a lot of shouting and rushing to and fro.

I assume that this has been considered in the past, just wondering why it hasn't been adopted.

Cheers

LGC

[Si]

Just joined and reading through the fora with interest

One thing about communication - nowadays you can get cheap radio handsets with earphones,

Used responsibly these could ensure good communication between front and rear organisers and avoid a lot of shouting and rushing to and fro.

I assume that this has been considered in the past, just wondering why it hasn't been adopted.

Cheers

LGC

Bit of a sledge hammer to crack a walnut IMHO, when the front leader merely has to look behind to see if everyone is there. Plus it makes the ride more complicated with the need to understand how to use the units, and the expense of buying them and replacing batteries, and remembering to bring them with you, etc etc.

[andrewjoseph]

In my view it:
encourages the group to split up over too large an area,
the constant crackle is annoying ,
It can be hard to hear in busy areas,
In heavy wooded areas it is almost worthless,
They can be very distracting.
Batteries die at the most inopportune moment.

[Sweep]

I just circulated an E mail about a car-assisted ride. It includes the sentence "If you go off the front of the group and take a wrong turn, I won't be chasing you."
"

Agree totally Colin.

I used to lead lots of rides. For a while I used to chase after those souls. After a while decided to let them go - the rest of us would pause/sit/have a natter, wait for them to realise that they were alone and ride back, maybe up a hill

Certain obligations on ride leaders for sure but also on the led - common sense to wait at junctions if you go off at the front.

[route 56]

Thanks to everyone that has taken the time to reply to my original post.
I am surprised at the number of ways that different groups are led.
Geoff D I do not ride with "insensitive", "Old School" or power mad riders but with friends that some times don't stop at junctions to make sure they can see the back marker. Hence my experiment.
I hate the thought that we very occasionally abandon the riders at the back and agree with Colin that if people aren't prepared to wait at junctions as I have asked them to when leading from the back then they can make their own way to the lunch stop!
One advantage I have found in using this system is that the faster riders can go on ahead to the next agreed stopping point while I follow on behind with the rest. This creates gaps that allow motorists to get past, rather than being frustrated being stuck behind a large group.
Please keep the comments coming as I wonder if this is an option that might be used by people that are happy with it (those with loud voices!)