Framsets with 72 deg seat tube angles

[JonMcD]

The thread on the Salsa Casseroll, that evolved into a “lively” discussion about seat tube angle, was interesting, but it does beg the question – if not a Salsa Casseroll, then what? If you accept that a seat tube steeper than 72 degrees is a problem for some (and I don’t want to re-open the debate) then what frameset will give:

72 degree seat tube, or thereabouts, especially in the small size where the seat tubes usually get steeper

Room for mudguards and 32mm tyres

Suitable for light touring

Oh, and no toe overlap would be nice too.

Is there anything close to the Salsa Casseroll price tag? I know that for a full tourer the Spa Tourer provides the right geometry, but it does seem a bit pricey compared to the old Salsa Casseroll price (seems the Casseroll has now been dropped by Salsa).

[JohnW]

..............what frameset will give:

72 degree seat tube, or thereabouts, especially in the small size where the seat tubes usually get steeper

Room for mudguards and 32mm tyres

Suitable for light touring

Oh, and no toe overlap ........................

Answer - a quality handbuilt steel frame - try Mercian.

[marvinandroid]

If it's light touring why not the audax?

Alternatively, planet x are good:

http://www.planet-x-bikes.co.uk/i/q/FRP ... e_and_fork

Mercian will probably be more expensive than spa ti.

[Brucey]

very many quality 'lightweight' or 'clubmans' steel frames built between about 1955 and 1980 will meet the spec, and unlike many more (loaded) touring-oriented framesets, there are plenty out there which are not overbuilt (~6 to 7 lbs for a frame and fork). Such frames used to be extremely commonplace; I have seen (and owned) several that have been pressed into service as hacks and training bikes.

The problem used to be that the brake drop was originally large with 27" wheels in and became even larger with 700Cs fitted. This meant that the choice used to essentially be between a long reach side pull, a mafac centre pull, or a weinmann centre pull; some choice.... Sometimes this was OK, but with the brake blocks and cables of the time, plus a casual setup, the result was generally a 'squishy retarder' rather than a 'powerful brake'.

Plenty of these frames have been converted to cantis which were a significant improvement. These days we have long reach DP calipers that work pretty well too.

If looking to build a bike with angles and clearances of this sort, I'd give serious thought to refurbing an old frame and using that. Particularly if you take a small/medium sized frame, the ride quality is likely to be somewhat better with a springy 1" fork vs a typical modern fork with a 1-1/8" steerer.

cheers

[reohn2]

If it's light touring why not the audax?

Alternatively, planet x are good:

http://www.planet-x-bikes.co.uk/i/q/FRP ... e_and_fork

Mercian will probably be more expensive than spa ti.

That looks to be one decent bike and the price is incredible!

Edit:-Ah,flies/ointments:-clearances are stated for 32mm tyres the bike in the built bike photos has 28s fitted,things may get tight with 32s.........
Edit no2:- 10mm on the chainstays would've made all the difference and why do they have the rear caliper on the seatstay instead on in the triangle,have they not learned the lesson yet............

[Ayesha]

IIRC, seat tube angle is determined by the ratio of upper and lower leg lengths. Mass producers work on a ‘national average’ of bodily dimensions for total leg length from Cormic Ratio height tests.
Across 3 SD within the ‘bell shaped curve’, adjustments can be effected by moving the saddle back and forth on its rails. Peculiarly different individuals can purchase a set-back seatpost.

Once upon a time, a ’74 parallel’ was available in most seat tube lengths. Taller guys would fit a set-back seatpost.

Now there are ‘Vertical dropout’ rear ends, the necessity to have the seattube as forward as possible ( to get the rear wheel in ) becomes redundant. So also is the curled seattube.

[Mick F]

In the old days, 72deg was for tourers and roadsters, 73deg for a more sporty feel, and 74deg was for racing bikes.

[Brucey]

That looks to be one decent bike and the price is incredible!

Ah,flies/ointments:-clearances are stated for 32mm tyres the bike in the built bike photos has 28s fitted,things may get tight with 32s.........

also the frame is just slightly overbuilt for unladen use in small/medium sizes. It will probably ride a fair bit better in larger sizes.

The other little snag-ette is that it says at the top of the page 'currently unavailable'....

edit; they do have the previous years' model in large and x-large though;

http://www.planet-x-bikes.co.uk/i/q/FRPXKV2/planet_x_kaffenback_swap_out_frame

cheers

[reohn2]

That looks to be one decent bike and the price is incredible!

Ah,flies/ointments:-clearances are stated for 32mm tyres the bike in the built bike photos has 28s fitted,things may get tight with 32s.........

also the frame is just slightly overbuilt for unladen use in small/medium sizes. It will probably ride a fair bit better in larger sizes.

The other little snag-ette is that it says at the top of the page 'currently unavailable'....

edit; they do have the previous years' model in large and x-large though;

http://www.planet-x-bikes.co.uk/i/q/FRPXKV2/planet_x_kaffenback_swap_out_frame

cheers

I couldn't live with those seatstays,they look like part of a WW2 gun emplacement
But thanks for the heads up

[Brucey]

I know what you mean. I was thinking of a Pompino as a hack frame and between the look of the seat stays, the weight of it, and the ride quality, I did what I suggested a few posts back; I decided to refurb an older frame instead.

Thing is, no one thing by itself would have been so bad as to be catastrophic, but overall, I just felt... 'meh.... I can take it or leave it', despite the lure of the newness. I guess if I didn't have a suitable frame kicking about and I was desperate I'd have maybe gone for it anyway; needs must and all...

cheers

[Malaconotus]

7 and a quarter pound 4130 steel frame and fork with 72 degree seat angle and great versatility..... http://www.singularcycles.com/shop/inde ... grine.html Or this, very popular with several folk here, but only gets slacker on the seat angle in the largest sizes... http://salsacycles.com/bikes/vaya_2_frameset

The growth in popularity of discs mean you may now struggle to tick all you boxes with a rim brakes frame and it's only canti that will give the clearance. What now pass as 'deep-drop' brakes give 28mm with or 32mm without guards even on the frames most accurately built for them.

[marvinandroid]

It's unclear what size the OP is looking for but as a smaller rider this has been a headache every time I come to add to the stable. The other option not mentioned yet is Surly - their LHT may be overkill but fits the seat tube requirement. I also know folk using the crosscheck for light to medium touring who really like it. Plus some bargains out there on the framesets. http://www.winstanleysbikes.co.uk/category/337/Frames

[Brucey]

I couldn't find the weights listed but of the Singular frames, I expect I'd have the 'Kite' model and find a way to fit mudguards to it despite the lack of eyes. Also has a 72 degree seat angle I think.

cheers

[irc]

I'll second the suggestion of a Surly frame. Assuming a small size isn't needed. The Surly Long Haul Trucker has 72.5 degree seat tubes in the 58 and 60cm sizes. 72 degrees in 62 and 64cm. THe frame is more at fully loaded touring than unloaded/light touring. I own a 60cm Trucker and find it OK to ride unloaded. But I weigh 16 or 17 stone. A very light rider might find the frame too stiff for best comfort when unloaded. For light touring the Surly Crosscheck may be better.

I can't fault the handling of my Trucker loaded or unloaded other than the fact a lighter weight frame would possibly give a better ride over bad surfaces when riding unloaded.

The Cross check is 72.5 degrees in the 56 and 58cm sizes and 72 degrees in the 58 and 60cm sizes.

http://surlybikes.com/bikes/long_haul_trucker/geometry

http://surlybikes.com/bikes/cross_check/geometry

[JonMcD]

Thanks for all the suggestions.

It's unclear what size the OP is looking for but as a smaller rider this has been a headache every time I come to add to the stable.....

Yes, that's the problem, the small size frames.

very many quality 'lightweight' or 'clubmans' steel frames built between about 1955 and 1980 will meet the spec, and unlike many more (loaded) touring-oriented framesets, there are plenty out there which are not overbuilt (~6 to 7 lbs for a frame and fork).......

Tempting, but for me that would mean eBay and most sellers won't have one of these:

Digital Bevel Box

or a clue about seat tube angle. I think finding the geometry of 30 year old bikes would be a problem for me.

So, some options I'll be thinking about:

Accepting that a small size frame and Brooks saddle means a layback seatpost (I assume talk of aggressive versus relaxed seat tube angles is just about the position they put you in, and that I won't notice any difference between a steep seat tube angle with a layback seat post and a relaxed seat tube angle and an in-line seatpost).

Waiting for the 725 steel Spa Tourer, although that will be a bit overbuilt for my needs.

Or something completely different like the Velo Orange frames, although once again may be more robust than I need.

Or just stop trying to find the ideal bike and get out more on the ones I have .